Swop Reverse and Drive Positions on the Stick Shift

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3 van 2 metros 1 tracker all stick all forward for drive rearwards for reverse. Now that I think about it all 5 speeds so that might have something to do with it?

Most other cars not stick were column shift so neither forward nor backwards but clockwise and counterclockwise or "up down"

Only the jeep had a park ward rest backwards floor/console shifter.
 
Most Japanese cars with manual transmission have reverse to the right and back, whether it had 4, 5, or 6 speeds.

VW's have almost always, if not always, been to the left and forward (with a downward movement in between) to engage reverse. I think BMW's are same, I don't know about Mercedes (most of which were sold with automatics in the US).
 
Hmmm interesting

I had a vw thing but I cant recall the shift sequence.

Just simple coincidence.

Either way the point remains. Forward for reverse backwards for drive is not "the norm" but in fact the exception until console shifting became more common.
 
nerys said:
Hmmm interesting

I had a vw thing but I cant recall the shift sequence.

Just simple coincidence.

Either way the point remains. Forward for reverse backwards for drive is not "the norm" but in fact the exception until console shifting became more common.

Oh, you want "the norm". Well, then, stay away from the bad-boy below. Especially when it's old and leaky and you're driving through the hills of West Virginia and have to spend an hour convincing the gas station attendant to sell you a quart of automatic transmision fluid.

"No Sir, I am NOT goin' to let you roo-in yer Volkswagon!"

Well, there's only one thing for it at that point. You gotta pull out the 4-foot-long spring-articulating transmission fluid dipstick. Then give him a couple of minutes to regain his composure.

Ah, fun times. "The Norm" it was not. :lol:

68T1-20.jpg
 
Nubo said:
nerys said:
Hmmm interesting

I had a vw thing but I cant recall the shift sequence.

Just simple coincidence.

Either way the point remains. Forward for reverse backwards for drive is not "the norm" but in fact the exception until console shifting became more common.

Oh, you want "the norm". Well, then, stay away from the bad-boy below. Especially when it's old and leaky and you're driving through the hills of West Virginia and have to spend an hour convincing the gas station attendant to sell you a quart of automatic transmision fluid.

"No Sir, I am NOT goin' to let you roo-in yer Volkswagon!"

Well, there's only one thing for it at that point. You gotta pull out the 4-foot-long spring-articulating transmission fluid dipstick. Then give him a couple of minutes to regain his composure.

Ah, fun times. "The Norm" it was not. :lol:

68T1-20.jpg

Ahh yes, the infamous VW Automatic Stick-Shift. Turning an already slow car into one with the acceleration capability of a supertanker. "Glacial" is the best description for its gain in forward speed.

My mother had one as my father simply could not teach her to drive "stick" even though us kids had no problem learning from him. She would leave the car in 1st gear all of the time, only using 2nd on the freeway.

"Fun times" is when the vacuum servo (which operated the clutch when you moved the gear lever) would fail, making the car stuck in whatever gear it happened to be in at the time.

It was an anomaly among transmissions (the only other example I know of is Porsche's similar "Sportomatic") but VW to this day still uses left-down-forward to engage reverse on their stick shift cars.
 
nerys said:
Hmmm interesting

I had a vw thing but I cant recall the shift sequence.

Just simple coincidence.

Either way the point remains. Forward for reverse backwards for drive is not "the norm" but in fact the exception until console shifting became more common.

I don't think you've driven very many European cars. Ford of Europe is to the left and forward, as is Renault. A quick Google Images search shows Opel, BMW, and Mercedes to be that way as well.
 
The point that I, and some others, have been trying to make is that there is no real "norm" and that it is up to the driver to learn how to operate the particular vehicle. To me it makes sense that Nissan followed the well-established Toyota Prius shifting pattern. I found it easy to learn to shift the LEAF (even though I've only driven a Prius once). This complaint about the LEAF strikes me as petty.
 
dgpcolorado said:
The point that I, and some others, have been trying to make is that there is no real "norm" and that it is up to the driver to learn how to operate the particular vehicle. To me it makes sense that Nissan followed the well-established Toyota Prius shifting pattern. I found it easy to learn to shift the LEAF (even though I've only driven a Prius once). This complaint about the LEAF strikes me as petty.

well said. +1
 
Yea I drive a lot of different cars, the shifter is the last thing that bothers me. I don't even notice the differences half the time. The wiper stock bugs me the most though.
 
Coming from driving manuals I also find the shift pattern to not be intuitive. Up is for D, back is for R. Every manual I have owned from an Acura Integra to a Dodge Ram all had that pattern.
 
MikeinDenver said:
Coming from driving manuals I also find the shift pattern to not be intuitive. Up is for D, back is for R. Every manual I have owned from an Acura Integra to a Dodge Ram all had that pattern.

Half of the forward gears are to the rear, no?

We're selecting a gear, not telling to car to "go fetch" :).
 
:D LOL. So.... getting back to the Nissan shifter.....
Out of idle curiosity I made it a point to figure out how the center console is put together and as the Staples big red button would say,
"THAT WAS EASY".
The shiny black top just lifts off, as it's being held down with spring clips.
The whole shifter assembly is held in a cozy bracket with two screws.
I haven't gone any further since I was on my way home at the time, but it looks like the whole shifter assembly can be rotated 180 degrees without changing or altering anything except perhaps the wire harness. It may cause a problem if its too short and or not centered on the bottom of the assembly which is where the actual switching takes place.
The whole thing is an interesting mechanical curiosity. Its worth the while to pop the lid and take a look at it.
You cant break anything doing it, unless your a total klutz. And you don't even need any tools to do it.
Another issue might be the shift knob itself. It is designed with a groove around the front to fit your fingers. I don't know how easy that will be to change around.( If at all).
I'll be taking a longer harder look at it as soon as I have enough time to play.

Zurc.
 
MikeinDenver said:
Coming from driving manuals I also find the shift pattern to not be intuitive. Up is for D, back is for R. Every manual I have owned from an Acura Integra to a Dodge Ram all had that pattern.
Not every manual does. Many 3-speed floor-shift gearboxes were built back in the day with reverse forward and 1st gear back. The older Porsche 901 5-speed transaxle had 1st gear back and reverse forward. Many sequential manual boxes have reverse gear forward from the neutral position and all other forward gears a pull backwards from there. It's the driver's job to adapt to the controls of whatever car they get into--you can't expect every shifting mechanism to be the same, or even comply with whatever your perception of "intuitive" is! The Leaf arrangement has never bothered me. It took a matter of minutes to adapt to it, and I have never shifted into the wrong gear accidentally in 3.5 years of driving it. This complaint is a "tempest in a teapot." If Nissan had made the car turn left when you rotated the steering wheel clockwise, you would have a beef, but the arrangement they chose for the shifting mechanism conforms to the millions of automatic shifters with the standard PRNDL sequence, except they made P a pushbutton and there is no L gearing. Get used to it!

TT
 
Well remember it does not conform to standard prndl. The vast majority of tgose are clockwose counterclockwise motion. None of that type even go forward or back until you get the centrr console/floor shift style shifter.

Either way it is fun to discuss. I would prefrr it forward "just because" no beef no tempest just a preference and it beibg electronic means "I can" possibly have it my way instead of just accepting it.

So why quibble over it and instead discuss "how" to make that happen.

Spinnong it 180 is probably doable byt that is not elegant to me. I want to try to electrically flip it so I can keep the physical design facing forward.
 
I took a deeper look into the shifter set up and it looks like it might take a little more work than I had originally thought it might to rotate the shifter assembly around.

There's only one screw hole to the front of the top half of the shifter lever assembly and two to the rear. The top half cannot be rotated without drilling 3 new holes. So that's problem number one.
The whole shifter assembly is attached to the center well of the floor and I can't tell if it can be simply rotated or not as it would require more disassembly than just lifting the lid off. Would need to take the sides off to properly access the bolts. There's at least two to the rear of the shifter assembly that are accessible from the top but the front requires the side panels removed to properly access it..

IF there's two more to the front and the front bolts are aligned with the rear bolts, then its likely possible to just rotate the whole thing 180 DEG. Then the remaining two issues would be the Indicator light assembly and of course if you want the shifter knob rotated as well, then that's another detective story as it doesn't just pop off and I wasn't game to play with it. And because generally speaking, if something works, don't fix it.

To Nissan's credit, its fairly neat and tidy in there. :)

Zurc.

.
 
What about the board? Is it wires where we might be able to simply swap the wires so front becomes drive electrically? Or is it an integrated board at the shifter? (Much harder to mess with)

Btw that away from the norma car are those drive selector buttons in the wheel hub? If so that is pure awesome!

I love weird funky cars. The weirder the better.
 
ttweed said:
MikeinDenver said:
Coming from driving manuals I also find the shift pattern to not be intuitive. Up is for D, back is for R. Every manual I have owned from an Acura Integra to a Dodge Ram all had that pattern.
Not every manual does. Many 3-speed floor-shift gearboxes were built back in the day with reverse forward and 1st gear back. The older Porsche 901 5-speed transaxle had 1st gear back and reverse forward. Many sequential manual boxes have reverse gear forward from the neutral position and all other forward gears a pull backwards from there. It's the driver's job to adapt to the controls of whatever car they get into--you can't expect every shifting mechanism to be the same, or even comply with whatever your perception of "intuitive" is! The Leaf arrangement has never bothered me. It took a matter of minutes to adapt to it, and I have never shifted into the wrong gear accidentally in 3.5 years of driving it. This complaint is a "tempest in a teapot." If Nissan had made the car turn left when you rotated the steering wheel clockwise, you would have a beef, but the arrangement they chose for the shifting mechanism conforms to the millions of automatic shifters with the standard PRNDL sequence, except they made P a pushbutton and there is no L gearing. Get used to it!

TT

Who still alive really drives a 3 speed floor shift? They bear no relevance in todays world. Those sequentials are not manuals. I was just making the statement that it is not necessarily intuitive. Also comparing the LEAF shifter to a standard PRND automatic is silly because they are nothing alike.
 
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