PG&E latest rate hike ( other questions on EV-A EV-B rates)

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mxp

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2010
Messages
767
Location
Fremont, CA
Hi,

Does anyone in the Bay Area have any additional info about this latest PG&E proposed rate hike? :cry:
http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_25991042/proposal-raise-pg-e-electricity-and-gas-bills" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And, for those currently still on the previous rate sche E9-B or E9-A, do you know when will PG&E automatically transition you over to the new EV-B or EV-A rate sche?

I recall sometime last year, the story was that existing customers on the old rate plan will automatically transition over to the EV-B or EV-A rate plan in Dec 2014. Not sure if that is still the case....

Any info or clarification is appreciated. Thanks!
 
PG&E enjoys a CPUC sponsored monopoly. The & in PG&E doubles your bill. There's news stories of a 7% rate increase for 'safety improvements'.

E9 was supposed to sunset in Dec or when the new rape plans are approved.

If you are always in tier 4+, EV may be cheaper.

Best to avoid PGE territory.
 
srl99 said:
PG&E enjoys a CPUC sponsored monopoly. The & in PG&E doubles your bill. There's news stories of a 7% rate increase for 'safety improvements'.

E9 was supposed to sunset in Dec or when the new rape plans are approved.

If you are always in tier 4+, EV may be cheaper.

Best to avoid PGE territory.

Too bad I can't move.

I believe those EV-B & EV-A rape plans are already in effect- meaning (I think) if you are a new customer, you will be placed on that rate, not the E9-B or E9-A.

But thanks for confirming that the sunset will happen in Dec 2014. So sad, the gravy train has ended....
 
PG&E now has a new rate called EV rate. In Marin we have MCE (Marin Clean Energy) so PG&E only charges me for delivery, but not for actual juice which runs 5, 6, 19 cents in summer (TOU) and 4, 5, 9 cents winter. I now average 17 to 20 cents per kW total electrical cost (which includes delivery, taxes, surcharges, MCE juice, and the rest of it).

When I signed up for this rate they asked for my Leaf's VIN#, so they are serious about this discounted service. It's only available to EV owners and no one else.
 
The national average price per kWH is about half what you're paying MCE. PG&E residential rates are designed to extract about double the national average from rape-payers. Check out Silicon Valley Power 10c/kWH all day/night/year. SMUD, Alameda Power … basically any CA "utility" which isn't for PROFIT.
 
srl99 said:
The national average price per kWH is about half what you're paying MCE. PG&E residential rates are designed to extract about double the national average from rape-payers. Check out Silicon Valley Power 10c/kWH all day/night/year. SMUD, Alameda Power … basically any CA "utility" which isn't for PROFIT.
Double? Seems like more than that. My tier 4 rate is 35.95 cents/kWh (37.75 when the 5% city tax is included). My Jetta TDI diesel fuel cost is less per mile (by about 10 percent) than the electric cost.

PG&E claims that it will go down to just over 32 cents/kWh next month. Should put me about the same as the diesel.

Time of use is bad news when someone works at home during the day.
 
alanlarson said:
srl99 said:
The national average price per kWH is about half what you're paying MCE. PG&E residential rates are designed to extract about double the national average from rape-payers. Check out Silicon Valley Power 10c/kWH all day/night/year. SMUD, Alameda Power … basically any CA "utility" which isn't for PROFIT.
Double? Seems like more than that. My tier 4 rate is 35.95 cents/kWh (37.75 when the 5% city tax is included). My Jetta TDI diesel fuel cost is less per mile (by about 10 percent) than the electric cost.

PG&E claims that it will go down to just over 32 cents/kWh next month. Should put me about the same as the diesel.

Time of use is bad news when someone works at home during the day.
Err, have you tried using PG&E's estimator? How much power does that person use at home during the day working? I have no AC at home and my old desktop computer (an i7-860) at idle + the 2 LCDs I use draw about 150 watts total. That's probably not too terrible in exchange for much cheaper rates to charge at night.

Almost every one of my bills is within tier 1, but then again, I never charge at home on Mon thru Thursday and almost never on Friday either. I also don't charge my EV home much on weekends, if it all. (I posted some estimator values at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=337391#p337391" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=376420#p376420" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. BTW, the bitmap in my 1st post is old but I got my Leaf at the end of July 2013, so you can see two months w/my Leaf there, at the end.) I'm still on E6 Smart and it's still the cheapest plan for me.

As someone else asked in another thread, have you considered solar to keep you out of tier 3 and beyond?
 
srl99 said:
The national average price per kWH is about half what you're paying MCE. PG&E residential rates are designed to extract about double the national average from rape-payers. Check out Silicon Valley Power 10c/kWH all day/night/year. SMUD, Alameda Power … basically any CA "utility" which isn't for PROFIT.
Thanks! I took a look at http://siliconvalleypower.com/index.aspx?page=1926" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and wow!

I'm in PG&E land and not in the city of Santa Clara, so the above isn't a choice for me. :( No wonder people call my utility Pacific Gouge & Extort. :evil:

However, looking at my most recent PG&E bill, Silicon Valley Power wouldn't me THAT much cheaper for me. My bill from 6/13/14 to 7/14/14 for electricity was $27.75 (tax and fees included) for 228.0852 kWh. My tier 1 baseline allocation is 352 kWh.

SVP would be WAY cheaper than PG&E if the PG&E customer had a lot of usage at tier 3 and beyond.
 
PG&E tiers are not based on any standard, they're invented to give the appearance of some electricity near the national average.

Yes, if you use very little electricity, you will pay PG&E something near the national average, these are teaser rates.

If you're still on E9, you are paying 56c/kWH summer peak, tier 4 or higher!
 
srl99 said:
PG&E tiers are not based on any standard, they're invented to give the appearance of some electricity near the national average.

Yes, if you use very little electricity, you will pay PG&E something near the national average, these are teaser rates.

If you're still on E9, you are paying 56c/kWH summer peak, tier 4 or higher!


Yep, they play this game over and over and are really good at making it complicated as well.
 
I've told people over and over; PG&E has the most expensive rates outside of Hawaii. People living on SMUD or SVU really have no idea how great they have it.

I have never once seen anyone stay in Tier 1. It's literally designed so NOBODY is in it. I achieved it for 3 months while I was living by myself. I had no fridge, no AC, 1 LED lightbulb in my room, and a laptop. I still came close to hitting Tier 2…

PG&Es Tier 1 rate is higher than the national average, and higher than a few other CA provider's peak prices…

I only wish I didn't live in a rental, so I could get solar panels. $1k of panels can save $100/mo easy.
 
When you see PG&E's usurious rates, it's easy to understand why there's such a high adoption of solar panels in their territory. Unfortunately, that's a band-aid for the actual problem - PG&E is grossly overcharging their rapepayers - while their buddies in CPUC protect the monopoly. The municipal utilities in CA have pretty reasonable rates.

Tier 1 is a teaser rate so that PG&E and CPUC can quote SOME residential rate which isn't so much larger than the national average.

mctom987 said:
I've told people over and over; PG&E has the most expensive rates outside of Hawaii. People living on SMUD or SVU really have no idea how great they have it.

I have never once seen anyone stay in Tier 1. It's literally designed so NOBODY is in it. I achieved it for 3 months while I was living by myself. I had no fridge, no AC, 1 LED lightbulb in my room, and a laptop. I still came close to hitting Tier 2…

PG&Es Tier 1 rate is higher than the national average, and higher than a few other CA provider's peak prices…

I only wish I didn't live in a rental, so I could get solar panels. $1k of panels can save $100/mo easy.
 
"It oughta be illegal!". And it sort of is, they are a "regulated" monopoly, unfortunately - they're in bed with the regulator so they get away with it.

Rate "design" is just PG&E's way of extracting the max from their rapepayers.

EVDRIVER said:
srl99 said:
PG&E tiers are not based on any standard, they're invented to give the appearance of some electricity near the national average.

Yes, if you use very little electricity, you will pay PG&E something near the national average, these are teaser rates.

If you're still on E9, you are paying 56c/kWH summer peak, tier 4 or higher!


Yep, they play this game over and over and are really good at making it complicated as well.
 
srl99 said:
PG&E tiers are not based on any standard

Actually, they are. PG&E takes the average consumption, and cuts it in half. That is the limit for Tier 2.

In other words, if you used only the average consumption, you would be just into the Tier 4 pricing.
 
mctom987 said:
I've told people over and over; PG&E has the most expensive rates outside of Hawaii. People living on SMUD or SVU really have no idea how great they have it.

I have never once seen anyone stay in Tier 1. It's literally designed so NOBODY is in it. I achieved it for 3 months while I was living by myself. I had no fridge, no AC, 1 LED lightbulb in my room, and a laptop. I still came close to hitting Tier 2…
PG&E is a rip, but outside of Hawaii, there are some areas in the US where electricity is also expensive.

As for your 2nd statement, I'm almost always within tier 1 but I live alone. I'll post up my graph later. I'm in area X, code B of http://www.pge.com/baseline/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

I've even had people give me a backhanded insult for using 345 kWh and 32 therms of gas in a month (http://priuschat.com/threads/which-san-diego-gas-electric-rate-plan-is-cheaper.107958/#post-1538830" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). :roll:
mctom987 said:
srl99 said:
PG&E tiers are not based on any standard

Actually, they are. PG&E takes the average consumption, and cuts it in half. That is the limit for Tier 2.

In other words, if you used only the average consumption, you would be just into the Tier 4 pricing.
I don't think the last statement is correct. Per http://www.pge.com/baseline/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;:
Determining Baseline Quantities

Service territories are divided into climate zones that reflect energy consumption needs. Each zone, or "rate schedule," is allocated a daily quantity of kilowatthours (kwh) of electric power and therms of natural gas that can be billed at a lower, "baseline" rate.

The Public Utilities (PU) Code establishes baseline quantities for average residential gas and electricity use within each baseline territory. The PU code specifically requires that baseline quanties fall between 50 and 60 percent of average use for basic-electric customers in both the summer and winter and for all-electric and gas customer in the summer. The PU code also requires that baseline quantities fall between 60 to 70 percent of average use for all-electric and gas customers in the winter
From the above, you'd be into tier 3. But, I agree, the baselines are a joke. and the tiering can really suck once you hit tier 3 or above.

edit: I've added my graph. My baselines are 11.0 kWh/day in "summer" and 11.7 in "winter". So, assuming 30 days/month, that'd make my allowed monthly tier 1 amounts 330 kWh in "summer" and 351 kWh in "winter". You can see my highest usage for the year. I do live alone but in a 5 bedroom house (long story) and I've had my Leaf since end of July 2013.
 

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cwerdna said:
mctom987 said:
Actually, they are. PG&E takes the average consumption, and cuts it in half. That is the limit for Tier 2.

In other words, if you used only the average consumption, you would be just into the Tier 4 pricing.
I don't think the last statement is correct. Per http://www.pge.com/baseline/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;:
Determining Baseline Quantities

Service territories are divided into climate zones that reflect energy consumption needs. Each zone, or "rate schedule," is allocated a daily quantity of kilowatthours (kwh) of electric power and therms of natural gas that can be billed at a lower, "baseline" rate.

The Public Utilities (PU) Code establishes baseline quantities for average residential gas and electricity use within each baseline territory. The PU code specifically requires that baseline quanties fall between 50 and 60 percent of average use for basic-electric customers in both the summer and winter and for all-electric and gas customer in the summer. The PU code also requires that baseline quantities fall between 60 to 70 percent of average use for all-electric and gas customers in the winter
From the above, you'd be into tier 3. But, I agree, the baselines are a joke. and the tiering can really suck once you hit tier 3 or above.
Did I miss something?
The PU code specifically requires that baseline quanties fall between 50 and 60 percent of average use for basic-electric customers in both the summer and winter and for all-electric and gas customer in the summer.
This means the baseline is 50% (because PG&E rips everyone off, and wouldn't be at the opposite side)
Tier 4 starts at 200% baseline. So, if you used average consumption, you would just hit Tier 4.

mctom987 said:
Actually, they are. PG&E takes the average consumption, and cuts it in half. That is the limit for Tier 2.
I meant Tier 1 :p
 
cwerdna said:
alanlarson said:
Double? Seems like more than that. My tier 4 rate is 35.95 cents/kWh (37.75 when the 5% city tax is included). My Jetta TDI diesel fuel cost is less per mile (by about 10 percent) than the electric cost.

PG&E claims that it will go down to just over 32 cents/kWh next month. Should put me about the same as the diesel.

Time of use is bad news when someone works at home during the day.
Err, have you tried using PG&E's estimator? How much power does that person use at home during the day working? I have no AC at home and my old desktop computer (an i7-860) at idle + the 2 LCDs I use draw about 150 watts total. That's probably not too terrible in exchange for much cheaper rates to charge at night.
Computers are a minimal part of power draw. Air conditioners to keep the house under 90 degrees eat electricity and run during the daytime.
 
mxp said:
Hi,
And, for those currently still on the previous rate sche E9-B or E9-A, do you know when will PG&E automatically transition you over to the new EV-B or EV-A rate schedule?

I recall sometime last year, the story was that existing customers on the old rate plan will automatically transition over to the EV-B or EV-A rate plan in Dec 2014.

I don't actually see any answer to this question. I had understood that PG&E would need to initiate a rate case with the PUC if they want to push those of us in E9 into EV or another rate schedule.

For me, the EV rate schedule would roughly double my bill. A big part of that is that I am usually in tier 1, and a little in tier 2 (prior to getting my Leaf, my 2 adult household was always in tier 1-it's not that hard).

I would invite anyone still on E9 to use the tool that PG&E to look at your future under the EV rate schedule. If you are a low quantity user, consider a push back on the PUC (cwerdna, I'm looking at you!). I plan to devote some time to this in September/October when I have a little more time.
 
I live with 8 other people… (though most aren't there most of the week, so it's not as crazy as you'd think).

We aren't exactly wasteful, but we have a high baseline usage. 5 fridges and ~10 loads of laundry per week put us into Tier 2 without even factoring anything like lights or AC.

I try my best to minimize electric usage where possible, but no way in hell I'm leaving my AC off if it's 90° in my room. :p

Ultimately, it came down to the fact that the EV-A rate has no tiers, so even peak daytime usage was only ~$0.40/kWh, much cheaper than the E9 at ~$0.58/kWh. I don't usually charge my Leaf at home, but the EV-A plan still saves me a good bit of the bill.

I still wish I had SVP. Even opting into the more expensive 100% renewable plan, it's <$0.14/kWh peak. :/

Edit: 3 of the fridges are minis, not full size, and one full size is dedicated to beer.
 
Yes, for low usage E9 is cheaper. PGE is already working their 'rate case' search GRC 2014 for spotty info.
matth said:
mxp said:
Hi,
And, for those currently still on the previous rate sche E9-B or E9-A, do you know when will PG&E automatically transition you over to the new EV-B or EV-A rate schedule?

I recall sometime last year, the story was that existing customers on the old rate plan will automatically transition over to the EV-B or EV-A rate plan in Dec 2014.

I don't actually see any answer to this question. I had understood that PG&E would need to initiate a rate case with the PUC if they want to push those of us in E9 into EV or another rate schedule.

For me, the EV rate schedule would roughly double my bill. A big part of that is that I am usually in tier 1, and a little in tier 2 (prior to getting my Leaf, my 2 adult household was always in tier 1-it's not that hard).

I would invite anyone still on E9 to use the tool that PG&E to look at your future under the EV rate schedule. If you are a low quantity user, consider a push back on the PUC (cwerdna, I'm looking at you!). I plan to devote some time to this in September/October when I have a little more time.
 
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