Shifting Question

TomT said:

Yeah, it was discussed in to the ground quite some time ago...

smkettner said:

I think this topic was the second thread created right after the lame nag screen debacle.

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It's been discussed numerous times to the ground on Priuschat as well.

Examples (I'm sure there are way more):
http://priuschat.com/threads/gear-shifter-orientation-backwards.11306/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://priuschat.com/threads/shift-to-reverse-while-driving-forward.32351/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://priuschat.com/threads/shift-forward-to-go-back.66847/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But yes, FMVSS plays a role too.

cwerdna said:

But yes, FMVSS plays a role too.

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Why? What does it say about floor shifters? 102 only appears to describe the position of column shifters.

donald said:

cwerdna said:

But yes, FMVSS plays a role too.

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Why? What does it say about floor shifters? 102 only appears to describe the position of column shifters.

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But the Prius doesn't have a floor shifter. It's not on the column, either, but it is on the dash next to the column. I think cwerdna is saying FMVSS played a role in shaping the Prius shifter. As others have said, the LEAF shifter action is nearly identical to the Prius, and presumably influenced by it.

By the way, as a former (and still occasional) Prius driver my complaint is not with the shifting actions or directions, but with it taking up all that space in the center, that could have been used for a large storage bin like the Prius has. Yes, they improved things a bit in 2013 by moving the parking brake, but in my opinion no driving controls should be located there. Driving controls belong where only the driver can access them. And I love the fact that I can shift the Prius between forward and reverse without moving my hand away from the steering wheel.

Ray

I think the shifter should share that spot with a regeneration command lever. If you pull it back AND have your foot off the gas, it slows the car down in proportion to the lever position. I hate feathering the brake pedal.

By the way, in 2010 (Gen III) the Prius shifter moved down to the center console, just like in the LEAF.

For my first ever test drive of a friend's Prius, I had to deal with things I'd never seen...wireless key fob, park button, shift knob sticking out of the dash, and an LCD screen to gawk at. Needless to say, the arrangement of shift positions was insignificant compared to the whole experience. Stuff like that, you learn in the first few days of driving, and then it doesn't matter as it's second nature.

Now that I think about it, the A/T versions of my Corvairs had the shifter on the dash, but it was a lever. Pushing down got you Drive and pushing up got you Reverse. But the mechanism rotated a drum that showed through the dash as an indicator. The RNDL letters showed through a window. This put the D above N, and the R below it. So, just like in computers, where the page moves up when you scroll down , you could look at either the lever or the indicator and declare it Wrong or Right as you saw fit.

I just don't think this is as significant as we want to make it. After all, when you hop in your airplane you pull the stick back when you're leaving. Who worked that one out?

The Wrights?

gbarry42 said:

After all, when you hop in your airplane you pull the stick back when you're leaving. Who worked that one out?

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planet4ever said:

But the Prius doesn't have a floor shifter. It's not on the column, either, but it is on the dash next to the column. I think cwerdna is saying FMVSS played a role in shaping the Prius shifter.

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'Floor' as in 'not column'.

There is nothing in FMVSS I can see that says anything about 'not column' shifters. I don't know why it is being re-quoted as if it does. It seems to be pure guesswork that it has something to say. 'Making stuff up' is how rumours, myths, legends and religions start, it's not how to get to the bottom of an explanation, if there is one.

It seems to me to simply be intended to follow the PRNDL sequence, in which the low forward gears are at the bottom of the sequence, so that when you need hill-holding in lower 'hold' gears, etc, the change is 'handy', being near to your hand. This sets forward gears by pulling backwards (a much more natural action to 'pull back' to a 'lower gear'). EVs just follow the PRNDL practice, but no need for the vestigial 'L' position(s) anymore.

^^^
Personally, I don't care, find the behavior fine and have better things to do than to debate/research this.

http://priuschat.com/threads/shifter-d-should-be-forward-motion-and-r-should-be-backward-motion.84047/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; was yet another thread on this as it's been debated and argued to death many times. http://priuschat.com/threads/shifter-d-should-be-forward-motion-and-r-should-be-backward-motion.84047/page-2#post-1174468" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; has a good argument about the sequence (since the 04+ Priuses do have a Park button the is above the shifter, to put it at the end).

TomT said:

Yeah, it was discussed in to the ground quite some time ago...

smkettner said:

I think this topic was the second thread created right after the lame nag screen debacle.

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http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=348" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; might be it.

For those who want the behavior the OP's asking for, esp. the OP, they should name some non-manual transmission vehicles currently or recently sold in the US that have what they desire along w/their annual US unit sales.

Also, FWIW, the 1st gen Prius that we got in the US (NHW11) DID have a steering column mounted shifter, unlike the self-centering joystick that came on the NHW20 (04-09 model year) and ZVW30 (2010 to current) generations.

I totally agree. Forward should be forward, not back.

I've had our Leaf for just two weeks now, but I get confused every time I get in the car.

How about making it a programmable feature for those who still like it the way it is?

As recently as last Spring, 90% of Leaf owners/lessees had previously owned or leased a Prius. Nissan said then that the Leaf's shifter was designed to appeal to Prius drivers. I have no reason to doubt them on that.

LeftieBiker said:

As recently as last Spring, 90% of Leaf owners/lessees had previously owned or leased a Prius. Nissan said then that the Leaf's shifter was designed to appeal to Prius drivers. I have no reason to doubt them on that.

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Hummm…but, I see little reason to follow what is wrong.

If many iPnone users were Android switchers, would it make sense for Apple to copy Android, even if that feature were absurd?

JustBobF said:

LeftieBiker said:

As recently as last Spring, 90% of Leaf owners/lessees had previously owned or leased a Prius. Nissan said then that the Leaf's shifter was designed to appeal to Prius drivers. I have no reason to doubt them on that.

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Hummm…but, I see little reason to follow what is wrong.

If many iPnone users were Android switchers, would it make sense for Apple to copy Android, even if that feature were absurd?

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we follow what is wrong every day when we say there is 5280 feet in a mile, 12 inches in a foot... etc... why don't we go to the metric system.. because we are used to the English system and don't want to change. Same reason we follow this backwards shifting pattern.

TomT said:

The Wrights?

gbarry42 said:

After all, when you hop in your airplane you pull the stick back when you're leaving. Who worked that one out?

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Pulling back on the stick makes the nose rise. What could be more natural?
Same with the rudder peddles.

Can you imagine driving a car where you turned the wheel to the right to go left? That is what the shifter does IMO.

JustBobF said:

I totally agree. Forward should be forward, not back.

I've had our Leaf for just two weeks now, but I get confused every time I get in the car.

How about making it a programmable feature for those who still like it the way it is?

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Absolutely not. Having to play a game to figure out how the LEAF shifter happens to be programmed is asking for trouble. The LEAF shifter is consistent with the Prius, a very common car, and follows the traditional pattern for automatic transmissions, as has been discussed in threads on this subject for years.

My last two ICE cars had completely different patterns for reverse on their manual transmission shifters and it wasn't a big deal for me to switch back and forth between them. By comparison getting used to the LEAF shift pattern is trivial.

Making a new and unconventional shift pattern for the LEAF, because it seems more logical to a few, is completely unnecessary. This whole issue is much ado about nothing.

@Colorado…there seems to be many strong opinions expressed here… I would be interested in knowing if this ever made it into Nissan's uability testing…

dgpcolorado said:

JustBobF said:

I totally agree. Forward should be forward, not back.

I've had our Leaf for just two weeks now, but I get confused every time I get in the car.

How about making it a programmable feature for those who still like it the way it is?

Click to expand...

Absolutely not. Having to play a game to figure out how the LEAF shifter happens to be programmed is asking for trouble. The LEAF shifter is consistent with the Prius, a very common car, and follows the traditional pattern for automatic transmissions, as has been discussed in threads on this subject for years.

My last two ICE cars had completely different patterns for reverse on their manual transmission shifters and it wasn't a big deal for me to switch back and forth between them. By comparison getting used to the LEAF shift pattern is trivial.

Making a new and unconventional shift pattern for the LEAF, because it seems more logical to a few, is completely unnecessary. This whole issue is much ado about nothing.

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Agree completely w/dgpcolorado.

JustBobF said:

@Colorado…there seems to be many strong opinions expressed here… I would be interested in knowing if this ever made it into Nissan's uability testing…

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This topic has been discussed and beaten to death numerous times already.

Examples:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=5456" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=14037" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Given that over 3 million Priuses have been sold worldwide (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=337387#p337387" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false and some of the other Toyota vehicles at http://corporatenews.pressroom.toyota.com/releases/worldwide+toyota+hybrid+sales+top+6+million.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; also have a similar shifter design (e.g. Prius v wagon, Sai, Lexus HS, Lexus CT,etc.), it seems like a good idea to stick with this.

Please name other automatic/CVT or single-speed transmission vehicles currently shipping in the US where they have the design you desire and name their cumulative unit sales or at least annual unit sales.

FWIW, the Prius was the best selling car (family) in California last year (http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/toyota-prius-is-the-best-selling-car-in-california.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false.