Official BMW i3 thread

evnow said:

Boomer23 said:

You can talk about how quick the RAV or the Spark are, or the sportiness of the Fiat, but they don't have the combination of quickness, small size and steering precision that the i3 has, nor the interior build quality. Too bad it isn't more affordable.

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The problem is I don't think too many people are looking for that combination of features and willing to pay thr' the nose to get the car. I think it will be a failure in the US - don't know about Europe.

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Agreed on both counts. But there are some gear heads and G force junkies on here who've been pining for Nissan to make a sports car EV. IMHO they need pine no longer, if they have the bucks for this one . The base BEV version is $42k before incentives and it's pretty well equipped, especially for a base model and it has all the performance of any of the i3 trim levels. And if you want to upgrade from the ugly base 19 inch wheels, the good looking sport 20 inchers with short sidewalls are only $1300 more.

surfingslovak said:

Beleaf said:

That's a little bit greedy. BMW are offering a special i3 deal to Electronauts, and the costs to BMW of the ActiveE program would have been much higher than the sticker price.

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I don't know, is it? The article seems to echo the prevalent sentiment among Electronauts, and it did not go into much detail about the rationale. Isn't it a bit curious why someone would feel that way? Perhaps greed is not the only possible explanation.

Beleaf said:

Pity they didn't offer them here...

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BMW is not offering the i3 in Australia?

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That was a past tense statement. I was talking about the ActiveE. The i3 is coming to Australia, I have one on preorder.

According to a post on the i3 forum:

EE's has full option flexibility, first to order and $1600 worth free package. They sre
DC Fast changing
Heated Front seats
customized accessory package that includes
Interior and exterior badging
License plate frame
door sill badging
Embroidered front trunk liner
BMW I floor mats

EE edition will be released April 28th and launch edition will be released May 5th.

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So Electronaut's get a bunch of swag, option flexibility that is not available to normal buyers in the initial release, as well as advance delivery, but that is not good enough for some of them?

Yep, sounds greedy to me

Probably, most Electronauts are not greedy, and some of those comments are not from Electronauts anyway...

^^^
I think part of the dissatisfaction is from Electronauts already have paid very high rates for leases as it is.

And, even if their cars were dead reliable (they weren't w/numerous serious problems, sometimes causing weeks of downtime at a time), the i3 lease prices we're seeing are insanely high (enough to lease at least 2 Leafs, maybe 3, if you get stripped down ones). And, BMW isn't passing along w/the entire $7500 in Federal tax credit as savings to lessees. That coupled w/the low residuals is making the total cost of lease VERY high. So, a # of folks have jumped ship once their ActiveE leases ran out.

I took a test drive at my local dealer last week. Driving up to the dealer in my 3 year old Leaf, as soon as I saw the demo i3 parked in front, I made a u-turn back towards home - the i3 was so ugly in front view with its skinny front wheels turned sideways. After a hundred yards I decided to make the second u-turn and go back to the dealer to give it a try anyway.

It drove great. I didn't think it was any quieter than my Leaf, though I've added sound deadening in the doors, so I'm not sure about the comparison to a stock Leaf. The i3 seemed small inside, and the black leather interior looked severe and sharp-edged. Overall the appearance was repellent (of course only my opinion). I definitely appreciated my Leaf more, especially in terms of utility per dollar, as I drove away from the dealer.

If I bought an i3, I'd have to put a bag over its head, and/or mine, before I could drive it.

The salesperson strongly suggested I sign up for a lease right away, as quantities will be limited. My enthusiasm was even more limited, so I decided I'd give it a year or two to see if the i3 looks less ridiculous with time. Maybe someone will come up with an aftermarket front end appearance kit.

As is, it's a real shame. I was ready for an EV step-up from my Leaf. The Model S is too big. Looks like at least a 2-3 year wait for something else to come along.

Oh, by the way, in another disappointment to hopeful early i3 buyers, if there are any such buyers left after the lease cost disappointments, BMW plans to only import fully loaded versions for the first 3 months or so. BMW calls this a "launch edition" and I've heard that they do this often with new models.

So if you aren't one of the ActiveE "Electronauts" (who are able to choose their option levels and will get the first US cars), and you want one of the first cars here, you'll be forced to take a fully loaded model, with only option of the paint color and the choice of adding the sport wheels. In CA, if you had the idea to get one of the early REx models and get one of the few remaining green carpool stickers before they run out (and maybe flip the car when the HOV panic starts), you'll need to buy a $56K car.

I love that $1,300 for wheel upgrade is considered to be so "reasonable" by some that it merits an "only..."

Boomer23 said:

And if you want to upgrade from the ugly base 19 inch wheels, the good looking sport 20 inchers with short sidewalls are only $1300 more.

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TomT said:

I love that $1,300 for wheel upgrade is considered to be so "reasonable" by some that it merits an "only..."

Boomer23 said:

And if you want to upgrade from the ugly base 19 inch wheels, the good looking sport 20 inchers with short sidewalls are only $1300 more.

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that's actually a pretty low price for a wheel upgrade. Check out upgrading the wheels on your Tesla order.

Boomer23 said:

But there are some gear heads and G force junkies on here who've been pining for Nissan to make a sports car EV. IMHO they need pine no longer, if they have the bucks for this one .

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And if they can stand the i3 looks. In general G force junkies also look for sharp looking cars - this one isn't (say compared to ESFlow).



vs

But will Nissan ever really sell something that looks like that?

We upgraded the wheels on our CUV to gorgeous 19" ones for a whopping $350... BMW is just doing their normal rape and pillage... No need to upgrade the wheels on the Tesla as it already comes with very nice stock ones, IMHO...

Sorry, but after a day of driving it last month, I just think that BMW could have done a much better job and that it is over-priced...

Boomer23 said:

that's actually a pretty low price for a wheel upgrade. Check out upgrading the wheels on your Tesla order.

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Boomer23 said:

But will Nissan ever really sell something that looks like that?

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Maybe, one day.

At the moment, the only option is a de-iced ICE car with plain looks. It's not offensive, but not many would say it's pretty either. We get both here (the Leaf and the ICE version) and I'm not really keen on either but I think the ICE version looks marginally better.

BMW chose a different path. Good for them. Given that neither car is drop dead gorgeous I'll take the new design and materials approach of the i3 over the cobbled together ICE car rehash approach of the Leaf. The clincher is the active battery cooling which is absent on the Leaf and one of the reasons I cancelled my Leaf order.

I can see the validity of the lease price complaints. Do you get third party leasing options in the US? We've always gathered the cash from savings or bank loan to buy cars, leasing doesn't work here financially unless the cost is written to a business where it gathers tax advantages.

Beleaf said:

Boomer23 said:

But will Nissan ever really sell something that looks like that?

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Maybe, one day.

At the moment, the only option is a de-iced ICE car with plain looks. It's not offensive, but not many would say it's pretty either. We get both here (the Leaf and the ICE version) and I'm not really keen on either but I think the ICE version looks marginally better.

BMW chose a different path. Good for them. Given that neither car is drop dead gorgeous I'll take the new design and materials approach of the i3 over the cobbled together ICE car rehash approach of the Leaf. The clincher is the active battery cooling which is absent on the Leaf and one of the reasons I cancelled my Leaf order.

I can see the validity of the lease price complaints. Do you get third party leasing options in the US? We've always gathered the cash from savings or bank loan to buy cars, leasing doesn't work here financially unless the cost is written to a business where it gathers tax advantages.

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It's possible to do a third party lease here (in fact I think that's the only way you could lease a Tesla), but the best deals are usually from the manufacturer. Most BMWs here are leased, I think. BMW's whole business model is to lease the cars new, offer high residuals because the cars really do hold their value well, so the monthly lease costs are often the cheapest way to get into a a new BMW, and then they take them back off lease, do a bit of reconditioning and re-sell them as Certified Pre-Owned (CPO) cars. Voila, twice the profit. Without the CPO, the cars have a reputation for costing a lot in repair bills, but the CPO takes some of the bite out of that, so CPO is a less worrying way to buy a used BMW.

Unfortunately, BMW is putting low residual rates on the i3 cars because they apparently don't want to carry the risk of a first-gen EV as Nissan and GM have, so the lease rates are uncharacteristically high. Game change.

Boomer23 said:

Oh, by the way, in another disappointment to hopeful early i3 buyers, if there are any such buyers left after the lease cost disappointments, BMW plans to only import fully loaded versions for the first 3 months or so. BMW calls this a "launch edition" and I've heard that they do this often with new models.

So if you aren't one of the ActiveE "Electronauts" (who are able to choose their option levels and will get the first US cars), and you want one of the first cars here, you'll be forced to take a fully loaded model, with only option of the paint color and the choice of adding the sport wheels. In CA, if you had the idea to get one of the early REx models and get one of the few remaining green carpool stickers before they run out (and maybe flip the car when the HOV panic starts), you'll need to buy a $56K car.

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Thanks for the note about that! It made my pay closer attention to a post on the BMW i3 group about this, which linked to http://bmwi3.blogspot.com/2014/02/us-i3-orders-limited-to-special-launch.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; re: the details.

Crazy! It's sorta good for the Electronauts but boy, I suspect some non-Electronauts semi-interested in the i3 will just turn their back on BMW and get something else.

Beleaf said:

At the moment, the only option is a de-iced ICE car with plain looks.

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Which car is that ?

Boomer23 said:

But will Nissan ever really sell something that looks like that?

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Yes - "ever" is a long time

I'm sure when Nissan sells a sports car, it will be sharp.

BTW, one interesting thing is i3's handling reports are all over the place. From glowing to not happy. So, apparently a lot of people won't even consider i3 sporty.

I would never buy - only lease, as I did with the Leaf - a first gen EV and BMW's ludicrous lease rates make that unattractive... It's the same as pushing up the sales price by 10 grand...

Boomer23 said:

Unfortunately, BMW is putting low residual rates on the i3 cars because they apparently don't want to carry the risk of a first-gen EV as Nissan and GM have, so the lease rates are uncharacteristically high. Game change.

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Looks like a nasty problem for the BMW i3 folks... and no spare parts to boot... from the BMW i3 forum.

Start pasted quote

vb996
Post subject: High Voltage Distributor failurePostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:41 am
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:38 am
Posts: 10
My i3 wouldn't heat the interior anymore. After two (!) weeks of investigation the dealer found out that there is a failure in the high voltage distributor. Unfortunately a spare part is not available. BMW assumes that it will be available by the end of FEB. Then they need to build it in, which is quite complex because battery pack has to be removed, as well as the engine.
Dealer told me that I'm not the only one, in total they now have 3 cars with the same issue.
Not only the car is failing, BMW i customer service is poor as well. They fail to contact you pro-actively, don't talk about compensation and fail to deliver spare parts within reasonable timeframes.
So far: big fail....

End pasted quote
Such an interesting car... but to me this seems very bad for it. Also since parts are scarce... one more vote for proof of limited compliance car and not genuine EV effort.

So, Leaf isn't the only car having heating issues

But at least you don;t have to take the whole damn thing apart with the Leaf...

evnow said:

So, Leaf isn't the only car having heating issues

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TomT said:

But at least you don;t have to take the whole damn thing apart with the Leaf...

evnow said:

So, Leaf isn't the only car having heating issues

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Indeed. i3 is very tightly packed - to do anything there you need to take the whole car apart.