Heater In a Box

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If you don't need extra range then there is no reason whatsoever, that I can think of, to build one of these things! I do plan to test it this week, hopefully in my housemate's Prius PHEV, which really needs it. Our commute is too long for it to be useful, but when she runs errands locally they are always trips of only a few miles. My Leaf will be next: it looks like there may not be as much space as I'd like in front of the driver's seat, to have two heaters blowing on my legs and feet, but I'll work something out.
 
Instead of using a battery for your power source how about a small propane canister like the one used on camping stoves. Here's a link to a crazy looking propane based catalytic car heater, looks sort of jury rigged but the basic idea looks like it has merit.

http://www.atomicheater.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
The idea of having a propane-powered secondary heater has merit, and I've suggested it for years. A DIY propane heater setup, however, isn't, IMO, a good idea.
 
Volvo was toying with an alcohol heater. Seems like a good solution, what would it take, maybe a 1-2 gallon tank. Even better if it could heat the battery.
 
I bought one of these 12V heated seat 'covers' for my 2011:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ANOUHG/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B000ANOUHG&linkCode=as2&tag=roblog02-20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Plugs into the cig lighter. I have not used it yet because its Houston and today it was 70. Warmed up again before I could use it but wife said it was warmer than just the seat alone when it was off, so should be pretty nice when actually powered up.

Under $18 and Prime eligible as of this typing.
 
I still think that adding any heater at the end of the day only extends range by the amount of juice you can get out of a 12volt battery.

I think you said you don't have access to 110v at your destination I wonder how much charge you could get off 2 or 3 12volt batteries in your trunk, hooked in parallel to an inverter to your factory level 1 charger. They don't give much but if you are at work for 12 hours....

If you preheat at home I can't see saving more then 5% with the added heater and I bet you could get the same amount or more back. If you are like me you have a few spare 12volt batteries lying around all winter from stored summer toys anyways (boat car etc).

I wouldn't do the added heater or what I suggested, but I think they would amount to the same and be a lot safer to just recharge a bit.

If I can make it work in Montreal weather without an added heater I would imagine anyone can.
 
Staque said:
Having a 95Ah battery means that it is rated to provide 4.75A for 20 hours. Pulling 35A, you will get far less than 95Ah (Peukert's law). That will account for some of the shortfall.
Pay attention here LeftieBiker, an Ah in lead acid land is like a "Nissan mile" in our land. Lead acid capacity is strongly tied to how fast you are drawing it. Most deep cycle lead acids are rated on a 20 hour discharge. You will see quite a bit of reduction in a high load application such as yours; cutting the capacity in half like the example above may be what you see in practice too.
 
I'm sure that will have some effect, but I don't think it will be nearly as dramatic as a 95AH battery shutting down an inverter in less than ten minutes. In fact...

I did the final "bench test" of the components of the prototype system this evening. The 800 watt inverter, which I hadn't tested with the heaters before, performed fine, powering both heaters smoothly and easily for close to ten minutes. The battery, however, isn't really up to more than testing, as I suspected. It's a roughly ten year old (I get some amazing lifetimes from lead-acid batteries!) 31AH deep cycle Dell battery, IIRC. I figure it has about 10-15AH of capacity left, now, so when the inverter started to complain (while still powering the heaters) after 8 minutes, I shut it all down. The battery read 12.14 volts immediately afterwards, but recovered on its own to 12.35 volts, which translates to about 45% capacity left. There was obviously some voltage "sag" but it wasn't excessive.

Conclusion, so far: the battery/inverter/ 200 watt x 2 heater setup seems sound. Based on extrapolation only, it looks like a 30AH deep cycle battery (easier to carry) should provide half an hour's heat with this version. A 60AH marine type battery should provide about 50 minutes' worth of heat. Both estimates are based on no more than 50% (marine) and 70% (deep cycle) discharge. I still think it's worth trying a "Greensaver" battery, because of its supposed lack of sulfation when sitting partially discharged (like while the car is at work) and its (also alleged) low internal resistance, which would allow it to provide more amperage with less loss and less heat inside the battery case.

The final test is, of course, with the heater "installed" inside a car. I may try the Prius PHEV first, because of space issues and the greater interest from the PIP folks, or I may use the Leaf if my housemate objects. In either case I should know how viable this idea is within a week or so.
 
http://www.contoure.com/Products/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=47&idproduct=14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How about something like that?

portable_alcohol_heater_5200_944_general.jpg


Question is where would you put it in a car? Maybe some little shelf over the console. Still you worry about burning up the car.
 
There are many old threads on the subject of additional heating.

IMO, the safe and cost-effective method to add a lot of BTUs still would be to install a propane water heater outside of the cab, with a heat exchanger loop to warm the heatant tank, allowing the stock heating system to operate normally, but allowing use of either the battery pack or propane for heating as desired.

There are numerous off-the-shelf RV and portable water heaters available, such as the one below for ~$120.

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/marey-portable-lp-tankless-water-heater-power-mini-gas-model/57523" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Add any size propane tank you like, a 12 volt recirculating pump, and a heat exchanger to the stock heatant system, and you're in business.

The hardest part might be fitting all that under the hood, but if you wanted, you could also use the spare tire space for the heater and propane tank, and run the water (or heatant) lines to the motor compartment.
 
I still think that adding any heater at the end of the day only extends range by the amount of juice you can get out of a 12volt battery.

And I've already replied that I think you're mistakenly thinking that the 12 volt battery is, essentially powering the car's heating system. Because that's the only way to get a 1 to 1 correspondence like you suggest. The only relevant factor is how much energy use by the car's heating system is made unnecessary by the auxiliary heater, which doesn't try to heat the whole car like the climate control.
 
LeftieBiker said:
I still think that adding any heater at the end of the day only extends range by the amount of juice you can get out of a 12volt battery.

And I've already replied that I think you're mistakenly thinking that the 12 volt battery is, essentially powering the car's heating system. Because that's the only way to get a 1 to 1 correspondence like you suggest. The only relevant factor is how much energy use by the car's heating system is made unnecessary by the auxiliary heater, which doesn't try to heat the whole car like the climate control.


Actually I think this whole thread is a waste of time but if you read my post I said if you were desperate for range and had nowhere to charge at work you were better off throwing a few 12volt batteries in your trunk and hooking them in parallel to your inverter and charging the car with the level 1.

Again I live in Montreal, have a non heat pump car and by blocking the grill, insulating all the heater components under the hood and preheating I can drive with almost no heater use if I have to.

If you get in a hot car you don't need much to be comfortable.

I would not want to have an accident in a car with a hot propane heater in it. Or one with anything rigged up inside for that matter.
 
You mean like a car with a trunk-full of large batteries and an inverter connected to them...? ;-) You're entitled to your opinion, of course. I just want to make it clear that you are quoting no actual physical laws.
 
renedarling101 said:
I love this idea......... great work

Thanks for the rare note of support. I'm looking for a newer storage battery and for my pinched nerve to heal before a road test, but it shouldn't be long. We're about to get frigid weather here, so I may try a very brief test with the battery I have this week.
 
When it comes to electric heaters (and even inverters for heaters) there is no such thing as an inefficient one.
100% of the juice that comes out of the battery becomes heat ... unless you're running
lights of making sound.

But then I'd love to know how much heat is lost under the hood. When I tried to follow
the heat lines, if I was looking at the right stuff, all I could see was cast aluminum that carried
hot fluid that would likely lose a huge part of the heat before it got into the heat exchanger in the
car. Anyone got a picture of diagram of what the components in the system are.

I like the idea of insulating what I can get at. Especially this week when its 6 below zero
F around here this week.
 
I did my first "road test' of the portable heater this evening. I used my Leaf, but will be testing it in the PIP next. Considering that it was 5 to 9F outside (and about that to start with in the car), and considering that I was only able to use both heaters for about 4 minutes because of the limitations of my little deep cycle battery, the test was a success. I placed both heaters on the floor in front of the driver's seat, facing forward toward the pedals and duct-taped in place, and ran both for the first four minutes, then turned one off and used the remaining 200 watt 120 volt heater for the rest of the 1/2 hour drive. I tried to measure interior temperature, but it's possible that the little Chinese clock/thermometer I used stops at 0 degrees C. Either that or I was actually able to maintain 0C (32F) in the driver's seat area for the whole drive. The important thing is that my legs felt warm, and with the seat heater on (low) and the Leaf's steering wheel heater on, I was reasonably comfortable. I used the car's climate control to defrost the windshield for 10-30 seconds every 5 minutes or so, and used the heater for two minutes at about the halfway point. I'm pretty cold-blooded, so if I wasn't too uncomfortable, most people should find the portable system usable as well.

A few guesstimate stats:

Trip time: 29 minutes

Portable battery power used: 10AH

Climate control runtime, with heat: about 3-4 minutes

Climate control runtime, fan only: about 15 minutes

Reduction in car heater use: approximately 25 minute reduction over 29 minute trip

Again, the idea isn't to heat the car's interior. The idea is to create a 'bubble' of heat around the driver's legs, rising up somewhat around the driver to increase comfort in the otherwise cold cabin. It appears to work.
 
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