Talk to me about charging/EVSE and charging stations

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lifeincolor

Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Messages
15
We went and test drove the Leaf SL today, I love it, my husband still wants us to go look at the Volt. He is so scared I'll run out of power with our two girls in the car and be stranded. I think a little planning is all it will take (and I don't like the thought of only have four seats on the Volt!). I downloaded the PlugShare app, as the dealer recommended, to play around with and think it's pretty neat. But I am totally confused about all the abbreviations and types of charging stations. I also don't really understand how much I can charge say, when I'm visiting friends and just plug into their regular power (120?) with the charger in the trunk. Can someone explain to me the different charging stations/type/brands, how they work and how long they take. Or point me to a site that has this info in an easy to understand format? Thank you so much!
 
This wiki (link in upper center of the page) should answer many of your charging questions:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Charging_System" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
On average what's your daily drive in miles??

The Leaf has a good 83 mile round trip and that all depends on how fast you drive on Hwys and city streets, if your commute around town is less then 35 miles and you occasionally go on long distance trips then the Volt would be great.

If you're daily commute runs lets say 50 miles around town with picking up the kids and work, then the Leaf is ok... Are there many hills or is it mainly flat in your area? These are rough figures, again if you drive faster lets say 65 - 70MPH then you waste your batteries down faster limiting your range.

As far as Chargers, the 120 volt charger in the trunk is a Trickle charger meaning it takes forever to charge the leaf, 8 to 15 or so hours, depending on how much battery you have left when you arrive.

You can purchase a charger for your garage that will charge the Leaf or Volt at 240 volts. With this one charging takes 2.5 to 4.5 hours. These cost around $600 to $1200 depending on which one you get. My Bosch Charger cost 800.00

On Plug Share App, the Green ones on the Map are 240 Volt chargers owned by various companies like Blink and Charge Point. The Orange ones on the map are DCQC or DC Quick Charge, those charge the leaf in around 30 minutes.

It is also every important we know what city and state due to the high heat or extreme cold weather that will badly reduce your range and also reduce the life of the battery.


Fred
 
There are a few mistakes in the previous post. First, what you plug into the car isn't a charger - that is built into the car itself. It is actually a charging *cord*, with circuitry to make using it safer. The official name for it is "EVSE", for Electric Vehicle Service Equipment. That's a Truly Stupid acronym, so "charging cord" or "charging cable" is also fine. Now, as for charging EVSE types and times:

* L-1: this is what you get with the car. It plugs into a 120 volt outlet and the car's charger uses that power to add about 4% to 5% of charge per hour. So if you Plug In with 40% charge, you can get to 80% (recommended for leaving the car sitting for up to a few days between trips) in about 7 1/2 hours. Getting from about 95% to 100% can take a bit longer proportionately, but you can still get to 100% from 40% in about 13-14 hours. If you charge to 100%, you should have the charge end right before you need to use the car, to preserve the battery pack.

* L-2: This uses 240 volts, and is about three times as fast (I don't use this much, so check the FAQ linked by the previous poster for more accurate charge estimates for L-2.) Home "charging stations" are usually L-2, and require a 240 volt circuit that isn't already used by another 240 volt appliance.

* DC Quick Charge (or "QC"): this requires a Leaf with a QC port and wiring already installed by the factory. It's an option that you can't add later. QC is very fast, and can get you from Low Battery to 80% in half an hour or so (again, check the FAQ). It is also very rare in much of the country, so check and see if you actually have it available in your area. If not, you don't need to get a Leaf with the QC option. If you do have QC stations (which are huge and can't be installed at home) available, decide if you need it. Quick Charging can shorten battery pack life, especially in Hot climates and when used a lot. It is also vastly more convenient than waiting for an L-2 charge to give you enough extra range.
 
Thanks for the quick responses! I actually don't have a commute, I'm a stay at home parent :) I'm in Oregon, there are some hills around me but nothing major. I live in Salem and like to be able to drive to Portland occasionally (50 miles away), luckily it looks like they have lots of charge stations around. I think I could also go north to Portland hang out and the stop for a quick charge at my dealer on the way home, if I'm to understand you can do that? That would be 70 miles before a charge so maybe too long before a charge?

A close friend lives 44 miles away, so round trip would be 88 miles. If I hang out at her house and just plug in to trickle charge I wonder if the four hours I spend there will even charge much?

Do you sign up for all the different charge companies seperatly (blink, charge point that you mentioned)? And then just get a bill after the fact? Or do you pay as you go? And do you have to pay for both parking and the charge (say in a garage)?

I really don't go far that often and I am looking forward to the leaf forcing me to think about where I am driving and why. I'm already trying to bike my girls around as much as possible. I only drive about 9,000 miles a year now, so I think I can make the leaf work as long as I understand that charging times/options and plan my trips. I love the idea of supporting this technology!
 
lifeincolor said:
A close friend lives 44 miles away, so round trip would be 88 miles. If I hang out at her house and just plug in to trickle charge I wonder if the four hours I spend there will even charge much?

Do you sign up for all the different charge companies seperatly (blink, charge point that you mentioned)? And then just get a bill after the fact? Or do you pay as you go? And do you have to pay for both parking and the charge (say in a garage)?

The 70 and the 44 mile round trip is totally pushing it, who's to say if that DCQC charging station around Portland or at your Nissan dealership is even working that day. These stations do break.

Yes you would sign up to each company like a Blink or Charge point, they will send you a key card that you swipe in front of the machine. Blink and Charge Point usually charge $1.00 per hour. The Blink Quick charge cost around 5.00 once you become a member. These two companies have Apps also so you can use the App to get a code and pay. You get a bill later.


Fred
 
One more quick question. On the share plug app there are seven different varities of chargers you can check to show, starting with the wall 120, and includes stations like "NEMA 14-50" and "Tesla Supercharge". Which ones out of the seven can I check to charge the Leaf SL?
 
lifeincolor said:
One more quick question. On the share plug app there are seven different varities of chargers you can check to show, starting with the wall 120, and includes stations like "NEMA 14-50" and "Tesla Supercharge". Which ones out of the seven can I check to charge the Leaf SL?

The Top 3 would be best.

1. Wall
2. Ev Plug
3. Quick Charge
 
Thanks Fred, yes, I'm looking at the plug share app and reading the reviews of various chargers and realizing how often they are offline. We will have another car that takes gas still, but I won't use it too often as I'd have to move two car seats to do so. So even with a trickle charge at my friends in the middle of the 88 mile round trip it's probably a no go? Mostly flat freeway miles, and it's usually rainy and mild here weather wise.
 
lifeincolor said:
Thanks Fred, yes, I'm looking at the plug share app and reading the reviews of various chargers and realizing how often they are offline. We will have another car that takes gas still, but I won't use it too often as I'd have to move two car seats to do so. So even with a trickle charge at my friends in the middle of the 88 mile round trip it's probably a no go? Mostly flat freeway miles, and it's usually rainy and mild here weather wise.

No go, at best something like 3 or 4 miles of charge at your friends house, Look up Evse Upgrade, I just upgraded my 120V charger (Cable) LoL with these guys, it allows that Trickle charger to connect with a Washer/Dryer Plug so you can charge at 240v, just unplug the Dryer and plug this in, charges much faster. Make sure your friend has this type of 240v Dryer plug. It becomes an L2 charger, you have an Adapter to use for 120v as well.


Fred
 
A longer post got eaten by the server.

No go, at best something like 3 or 4 miles of charge at your friends house...

She wants to charge for *four hours* at her friend's house, not one. That's at least 15 miles of range added. Please read more carefully.
 
LeftieBiker said:
A longer post got eaten by the server.

No go, at best something like 3 or 4 miles of charge at your friends house...

She wants to charge for *four hours* at her friend's house, not one. That's at least 15 miles of range added. Please read more carefully.

Dude what's your problem, keeping it to laymans terms here with her, you can answer her questions with all of your technical knowledge and lose her as most people on this board, this is one of the most hostile forums I've join, it's no wonder why people are afraid to ask questions here.

From the very first post "well he has a few wrong answers, Who gives a Hoot. As long as she gets what I mean, the Link added was even more confusing.

Relax dude.


Fred San Diego Ca
 
"Dude", you can be as laid-back as you want, but don't give incorrect answers to people. Calling an EVSE a "charger"is a fairly harmless mistake, but telling someone that L-1 charging at someone's home for four hours will only give 4 or 5 miles of range is not acceptable. Hopefully a Moderator will ask you to cut that out, but at the very least I'm going to correct you so you don't give bad advice. As for my posts being overly technical (at least I think that's what you meant, but really, who knows?), you haven't run into a real Leaf Geek yet. I was just too technical for you.
 
LeftieBiker said:
"Dude", you can be as laid-back as you want, but don't give incorrect answers to people. Calling an EVSE a "charger"is a fairly harmless mistake, but telling someone that L-1 charging at someone's home for four hours will only give 4 or 5 miles of range is not acceptable. Hopefully a Moderator will ask you to cut that out, but at the very least I'm going to correct you so you don't give bad advice. As for my posts being overly technical (at least I think that's what you meant, but really, who knows?), you haven't run into a real Leaf Geek yet. I was just too technical for you.

Really dude Really? 15 miles is all you got out of those 4 long hours? LoL 15 miles I eat up on my first 15 minutes of my commute, just keeping it real, 4 hours of charge for 15 miles still not enough.

I love my Leaf but I would of gone with the Volt for the added range when needed. My round trip to work and back runs around 40 miles. Could also run the Volt to Vegas with no worries if needed.

Mother of 2 and her husband has concerns, I would go with the Volt or even the Rav4 Ev for more range.
 
lifeincolor said:
One more quick question. On the share plug app there are seven different varities of chargers you can check to show, starting with the wall 120, and includes stations like "NEMA 14-50" and "Tesla Supercharge". Which ones out of the seven can I check to charge the Leaf SL?

NEMA 14-50 is a type of outlet, not a charger. When you see this in PlugShare, it means there is a 240 volt outlet available of a certain type that is capable of supplying a continuous 40 amp current. But without an EVSE to plug into it, it cannot charge your car.

The EVSE that comes with the car is designed to work with 120 volt outlets only, but for around $300 there is a company that will modify it to accept both 120 and 240 volt current. The plug that is installed with this modification is called an NEMA L6-30, but you can purchase from the vendor (and MyNissanLeaf member) an adapter that lets you plug into a standard grounded 120 volt outlet. Another adapter will let the upgraded EVSE use NEMA 14-50. Link: http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I should mention this now, as there is misinformation on the Internet: DO NOT CONNECT AN UNMODIFIED EVSE FROM A US OR CANADIAN MODEL LEAF TO AN OUTLET OF OVER 120 VOLTS!!! Despite what is being misreported, Nissan is NOT providing dual-voltage EVSEs with Leafs sold over here. To do so will destroy a part that costs as much as $1,000 to replace and WILL NOT be covered under warranty. On the contrary, Nissan is wise to this practice and have specifically advised dealers to look for telltale damage. Even though the plugs are different for 120 and 240 volt, that has not stopped a few Leafers from attempting this using adapters and even improper wiring, and blowing up their EVSEs.

In PlugShare, if you want to see public charging stations (and not those at someone's home), deselect "Residential Chargers." If the Leaf you get does not have a Quick Charge port, you can also deselect "High Power Stations." If it does have QC, go into the settings (for the web version, it's the "cog" icon next to the search field) and deselect anything with Tesla in the name. Nissan subscribes to the CHAdeMO quick charging standard.

For 208/240 volt charging, you'll want to see "J1772" in the description. That is the standard being used for EVs being sold today in North America. There are a few legacy chargers still installed, like the "paddle" chargers that the GM EV-1 used to use, and those will not work with the Leaf.

On 120 volt charging: at this voltage, the Leaf draws 12 amps. That means you will need a properly grounded outlet on a circuit with at least a 15 amp capacity that is not shared with anything else, especially high-current appliances like refrigerators and air conditioners.
 
Wow! I'm going to have to jump in here, and unfortunately I'm going to start by taking sides. lifeincolor, I think you should give LeftieBiker's comments more credence than Wennfred's. Insisting on calling EVSE's chargers does muddy the waters, especially when we are talking about how long it takes to charge. And some of Wennfred's numbers are questionable.

On the other hand, some of his points are good. A key point he made is that, for an EV, speed kills range. Your proposed 88 mile trip with 4 hours of trickle charging is possible, but not if you try to drive 65-70 mph. And LEAF batteries, like all batteries, do wear out. It may not be possible four years from now without holding your speed down to 50 mph. Rain is also a problem, and you get a lot of that. Wennfred is right that if you were to get an EVSE Upgrade for your trickle charge cord, and if your friend had an electric dryer outlet in the garage, this would become an easy trip. You can get adapters for whichever type of plug is in the house.

The really big thing you have going for you is that you are located near one of the densest concentration of Quick Charge stations in the nation. Do be sure to get the Quick Charge port. It comes standard on the SL model, is an added cost on the S and SV models. As Leftie said, it has to be built into the car; it can't be added later.

If you have the QC port you will also have the faster charger in the car. This not terribly important at home, as even the "slower" type of 240v (L2) charging can easily charge the car from empty to full overnight. But if you should run low on the road, and not be close to a QC station, the faster charger will fill your battery at 25%-30% per hour. The slower one in the base S model and the 2011/2012 cars only give you about 15% per hour. Note that the QC gives you more like 70% in half an hour.

It is important to note that the faster on-board charger does not speed up charging at L1.

Finally, let me emphasize one of my first points. Tell your husband you will not run out of power with your two girls in the car and be stranded. Here is what will happen instead. You may be 15 miles from home and get a "low battery" warning. No problem. Get off the freeway if you are on it. Slow to 35 mph. You will make it home. It will take you 10 minutes longer than you expected, but that is very unlikely to be a catastrophe. Speed kills range. Low speed buys range. It's that simple.

Ray
 
lifeincolor said:
We went and test drove the Leaf SL today, I love it, my husband still wants us to go look at the Volt. He is so scared I'll run out of power with our two girls in the car and be stranded. I think a little planning is all it will take (and I don't like the thought of only have four seats on the Volt!). I downloaded the PlugShare app, as the dealer recommended, to play around with and think it's pretty neat. But I am totally confused about all the abbreviations and types of charging stations. I also don't really understand how much I can charge say, when I'm visiting friends and just plug into their regular power (120?) with the charger in the trunk. Can someone explain to me the different charging stations/type/brands, how they work and how long they take. Or point me to a site that has this info in an easy to understand format? Thank you so much!

Hi lifeincolor. You're doing the right thing by researching as much as you can, to really understand what you'll need to do to drive an EV, and put your husband's fears to rest. You can do it. :D

You live in one of the best areas of the country for driving a LEAF. Look at all the green and orange in Portland on your Plugshare app! OMG! We don't have any orange at all here. When I drive 50 miles into Boston, I have to find a green one (EV plug, means 240 volt, Level 2 charger) and plug in for 2-3 hours to ensure I can get home, and my 2012 SL charges at half the speed a 2013 does at 240 volts. But with the orange ones (CHAdeMO, 440 volt DC Quick Chargers), and so many of them!!!, you're free to move around the cabin! So, Portland is not a problem.

See, you're already more conscious about your driving. :p

The friend's house, 88 miles round trip, is another matter. L1, or 120 volt charging will still only get you about 4 miles worth of charge per hour, even in a 2013, so you need to plan. You could: leave home fully charged and hang out there for five hours on 120, or look for an orange quick charger on your route and get the kids a snack while you charge for 20 minutes. ;) a healthy snack.

The EVSE upgrade is good if a 240 outlet is within reach.

You'll want a 240 unit at home too, where you'll do most of your refueling. Best of all, your electric costs are dirt cheap in OR.

I looked at the Volt too, and it's good for what it is, but the back seats are pretty tight.

Good luck to you.
 
Now at least I can stop grumbling over the detailed post this site's server ate! The only quibble I have with the two excellent posts above is that I seem to get 5% per hour on L-1, with my 2013 SV. That may be because I'm close to the hydro plant that supplies my power, though. Sometimes the car is charged an hour earlier than I expected.
 
^^^
As for eaten posts, I often (but not always) copy and paste what I'm writing into notepad as I go along, just in case something goes awry.

This site goes down around 1 am or 1:10 am Pacific time each day for backups.
planet4ever said:
Wow! I'm going to have to jump in here, and unfortunately I'm going to start by taking sides. lifeincolor, I think you should give LeftieBiker's comments more credence than Wennfred's. Insisting on calling EVSE's chargers does muddy the waters, especially when we are talking about how long it takes to charge. And some of Wennfred's numbers are questionable.
Yep, Wennfred, please get the terminology straight and stop using the words "charger" when you actually mean EVSE. See diagram at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=262630#p262630" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

For L1 and L2 AC charging over J1772, the charger is on-board the car under the hood, part of the PDM stack. In almost every case where you said "charger", you meant EVSE. (On '11 and '12 Leafs, the on-board charger is in the back, under the plastic hump behind the seats.)

Perpetuating the wrong terminology can lead to confusion down the road, wasting money or buying the wrong vehicle, equipment or options/equipment level.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=301972#p301972" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; has a table of charging rates. How quickly one can charge is influenced by many factors such as the max input/output of the on-board charger, max output of the EVSE, line voltage, etc.

As an FYI for the OP, the '13 Leaf SL and SV (and S w/quick charge package) have 6 kW on-board chargers, while the base S has only a 3.3 kW OBC. '11 and '12 Leafs only have 3.3 kW OBCs.
planet4ever said:
It is important to note that the faster on-board charger does not speed up charging at L1.
Yep. 6 kW OBC won't help w/making 120 volt charging any faster as the car only draws about ~1.3 or ~1.4 kW at 120 volts.
 
lifeincolor said:
I really don't go far that often and I am looking forward to the leaf forcing me to think about where I am driving and why. I'm already trying to bike my girls around as much as possible. I only drive about 9,000 miles a year now, so I think I can make the leaf work as long as I understand that charging times/options and plan my trips. I love the idea of supporting this technology!
When I put the bike in the back of the LEAF I tell everyone I now have a range extended electric vehicle.

There are hitch kits for the LEAF and then you can add a bike rack easily.
 
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