Discuss data from the LEAF Battery app, and Comparisons

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palmermd said:
At 100% the difference is in the teens, at 80% which is where I normally charge to it is in the 20's, and at low SOC it is nearing 100mV (saw over 100mV last night when we got home). To me it seems like that one pair is what is limiting the entire pack. It sort of happened suddenly last spring. I had a drive I took every month that always had me home with a dozen or more miles remaining, and then one day I could not even make the trip and I was short by dozens of miles. I ended up driving 35mph in order to make it. Full charges from VLB is about 16kWh from the wall. Pack still says I'm at 90% capacity, and I have all 12 bars, but range is severely limited. I've had to take the Prius on this monthly trip since. I've tried it twice in the past year, and each time I've had to drive MUCH slower than I did before AND i'm charging on 120v while I'm there which I did not do before.

Interesting that the #28 is at the voltage where VLB occurs and I got VLB even though the other cells are well above. The other interesting thing is that the first half of the pack is scattered and slightly less than the second half of the pack which has more consistent voltages and they average higher. Sorry about the bad picture that I should have taken at the 100mV scale, but here is what I have from the other evening 107 during the day and it was still in the 90's at 11:30 when I got home hence the high pack temperatures.

20130701-175837.jpg
You are using the wrong scale. It does not mean the second half has most cells at the same voltage. They just go off screen so are being clipped.

If you see 82mv difference you should not be using a scale of 50 mv. The scale should be greater than the difference if you want to see the true max and mins.
 
Turbo3 said:
palmermd said:
...

Interesting that the #28 is at the voltage where VLB occurs and I got VLB even though the other cells are well above. The other interesting thing is that the first half of the pack is scattered and slightly less than the second half of the pack which has more consistent voltages and they average higher. Sorry about the bad picture that I should have taken at the 100mV scale, but here is what I have from the other evening 107 during the day and it was still in the 90's at 11:30 when I got home hence the high pack temperatures.

20130701-175837.jpg
You are using the wrong scale. It does not mean the second half has most cells at the same voltage. They just go off screen so are being clipped.

If you see 82mv difference you should not be using a scale of 50 mv. The scale should be greater than the difference if you want to see the true max and mins.

I realize it was at the wrong scale as I noted in the post above, but even when I look at it on the correct scale, the second half of the pack are all much closer together in voltage and they are all higher in voltage. The average voltage difference can clearly be seen in the above picture since the first half are all on the scale and most of the second half are off the top of the scale.
 
palmermd said:
but even when I look at it on the correct scale, the second half of the pack are all much closer together in voltage and they are all higher in voltage. The average voltage difference can clearly be seen in the above picture since the first half are all on the scale and most of the second half are off the top of the scale.
FWIW, my pack is "balanced" very similarly to yours...
 
TomT said:
So, I just installed the beta version of the App and was very surprised to find a Health reading of 67.11%! Anyone car to conjecture what that might mean?

My AHr is at 54.30 and my cell imbalance is 12Mv.
Well, I feel better now. I'm at 54.08Ah and 78.03% health. I thought that was a little low.
 
GregH said:
TomT said:
So, I just installed the beta version of the App and was very surprised to find a Health reading of 67.11%! Anyone car to conjecture what that might mean?

My AHr is at 54.30 and my cycle imbalance is 12Mv.
Wow! That's a scary number.. I have seen deviation with lower capacity cars between the Ah (or Ah/66.25) and the Health. TickTock's car showed similar numbers (mentioned in the Capacity vs. Health thread).
Wouldn't Ah/Health return the expected capacity when new? If so, Tom's reading would indicate 80 Ah at 100% health. The highest number I have ever seen. Most of the packs come in between 66 and 69 Ah.
 
Yeah, none of my numbers make a lot of sense to me. Just today I charged to 100% which gave 222 Gids (exactly what I had pre-P3227, by the way) but a SOC of 91.4%, which is low...
My cell balance appears good (12 Mv) so I don't know what accounts for the low SOC and the very low Health...

davewill said:
TomT said:
So, I just installed the beta version of the App and was very surprised to find a Health reading of 67.11%! Anyone car to conjecture what that might mean?
My AHr is at 54.30 and my cell imbalance is 12Mv.
Well, I feel better now. I'm at 54.08Ah and 78.03% health. I thought that was a little low.
 
I am guessing that the BMS does little or no cell balancing when
the battery temperatures are high, like near 100F as shown in
the picture above. My guess is that many shunts would be On
if the battery temperatures were in the 60s or 70s.
 
Here a few examples of the data I get from my Leaf.

7899wkn2x04j.png
3ipliqe5v9dx.png


I would say, cellpair 35 is off way too much, since the Leaf is a 2012 with 4500KM (3000mile). In a few days I will take the car to the dealer for some minor issues and this big bad cellpair.
I wonder how the are going to react on this information.

The representation of the shunting of cellpairs by the app seems odd, to say the least, on a 2x 100KM(66mile) trip and back with 40 minute QC in between, all the cells were shunted (see image) all the time (3 hrs) except the one NEXT TO the bad cellpair 35.

The car is charged to 80% each night and to 100% in the weekends. Since I started using this app about 3 weeks ago and saw the bad cellpair 35, I have charged to 100% for 2 weeks and even let the car connected to the EVSE for 4 days uniterrupted.

Thanks in advance for reacting / commenting on this!
 
EV1 said:
Here a few examples of the data I get from my Leaf.

80prc.png
Screen_1a.png


I would say, cellpair 35 is off way too much, since the Leaf is a 2012 with 4500KM (3000mile). In a few days I will take the car to the dealer for some minor issues and this big bad cellpair.
I wonder how the are going to react on this information.

The representation of the shunting of cellpairs by the app seems odd, to say the least, on a 2x 100KM(66mile) trip and back with 40 minute QC in between, all the cells were shunted (see image) all the time (3 hrs) except the one NEXT TO the bad cellpair 35.

The car is charged to 80% each night and to 100% in the weekends. Since I started using this app about 3 weeks ago and saw the bad cellpair 35, I have charged to 100% for 2 weeks and even let the car connected to the EVSE for 4 days uniterrupted.

Thanks in advance for reacting / commenting on this!
The app is setup incorrectly.. the shunt order is 8421, not 4812 as you have it configured.
Your pack is actually shunting power away from ALL cells except the low cell.
 
EV1 said:
Here a few examples of the data I get from my Leaf.

80prc.png
Screen_1a.png


I would say, cellpair 35 is off way too much, since the Leaf is a 2012 with 4500KM (3000mile). In a few days I will take the car to the dealer for some minor issues and this big bad cellpair.
I wonder how the are going to react on this information.

The representation of the shunting of cellpairs by the app seems odd, to say the least, on a 2x 100KM(66mile) trip and back with 40 minute QC in between, all the cells were shunted (see image) all the time (3 hrs) except the one NEXT TO the bad cellpair 35.

The car is charged to 80% each night and to 100% in the weekends. Since I started using this app about 3 weeks ago and saw the bad cellpair 35, I have charged to 100% for 2 weeks and even let the car connected to the EVSE for 4 days uniterrupted.

Thanks in advance for reacting / commenting on this!

Just ask them to do the CVLI procedure. That cell meets the criteria for replacement even at 80% charge. I have one that gets flagged at low charge, but barely:
 

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TickTock said:
Just ask them to do the CVLI procedure. That cell meets the criteria for replacement even at 80% charge. I have one that gets flagged at low charge, but barely:
Can you describe the CVLI procedure? What are the criteria for replacement?
 
Stoaty said:
TickTock said:
Just ask them to do the CVLI procedure. That cell meets the criteria for replacement even at 80% charge. I have one that gets flagged at low charge, but barely:
Can you describe the CVLI procedure? What are the criteria for replacement?
I would be curious to learn more too, in the meantime, some of the past discussion can be found here and here or here.
 
surfingslovak said:
Stoaty said:
TickTock said:
Just ask them to do the CVLI procedure. That cell meets the criteria for replacement even at 80% charge. I have one that gets flagged at low charge, but barely:
Can you describe the CVLI procedure? What are the criteria for replacement?
I would be curious to learn more too, in the meantime, some of the past discussion can be found here and here or here.
All I know is what is published in the Service manual (April 2011 SM page EVB-268):
 

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EV1, I'm curious. Do you accept or deny the nag screen on powerup? The reason I ask is other people who didn't know they had a problem have been proactively called in to have cell pairs replaced. Apparently, Nissan is alerted to battery issues via their messaging system and wondered if maybe you were declining access.
 
Just to make it more confusing, this morning I was back up to 230 Gids for a 100% charge with a SOC of 95.3%... This with 54.22 AHr and a Health of 66.89%, which are both lower. Cell imbalance was 23Mv.

I simply can't make rhyme or reason out of these numbers...

TomT said:
Yeah, none of my numbers make a lot of sense to me. Just today I charged to 100% which gave 222 Gids (exactly what I had pre-P3227, by the way) but a SOC of 91.4%, which is low... My cell balance appears good (12 Mv) so I don't know what accounts for the low SOC and the very low Health...
davewill said:
TomT said:
So, I just installed the beta version of the App and was very surprised to find a Health reading of 67.11%! Anyone car to conjecture what that might mean?
My AHr is at 54.30 and my cell imbalance is 12Mv.
Well, I feel better now. I'm at 54.08Ah and 78.03% health. I thought that was a little low.
 
No matter what I've tried, I've never gotten beyond "Waiting 4 Leaf data"


I have it installed on a Samsung Galaxy S4 and use the Vgate ELM327. I got bluetooth activated and the Vgate device paired. I put the car into ready mode, plug in the Vgate and start the app, it goes through the various connection cycles, says "Waiting 4 Leaf data", and stops.
 
@ GregH
The app is setup incorrectly.. the shunt order is 8421, not 4812 as you have it configured
Thanks, that must be it. I never touched that setting, so I don't know why it's at 4812. I will check the shunt behaviour when I have the chance.

@ TickTock
Just ask them to do the CVLI procedure. That cell meets the criteria for replacement even at 80% charge.
Thanks, I will.
I always press the "OK"-button, otherwise not much info is given on that screen. But I did not activate Carwings. (reasons why, is a complete different discusion on itself, but one reason was that I was hoping not to have to press that OK-button all the time)
The car was purchased in march this year, and I have been very mild to the battery pack. That cellpair must have been not OK already then.
 
EV1 said:
@ GregH
The app is setup incorrectly.. the shunt order is 8421, not 4812 as you have it configured
Thanks, that must be it. I never touched that setting, so I don't know why it's at 4812. I will check the shunt behaviour when I have the chance.

what is this setting? What does it do, and if it is necessary to be a certain way, why do we have the option of changing it?
 
The shunt order is used to properly relate which shunts are “on” to the correct cell pair on your phone display. If you know a little about bit masking, that is essentially what this setting is changing. If you’re not too interested in shunting (red cells vs green cells) then leaving this setting will not change the rest of your data.

We have the option to change it because we didn’t know the correct bit order early on. Allowing each user to change it allowed more people to try different settings and see which one gave the best data. Perhaps in a future release, the default will be set to 8421.
 
palmermd said:
EV1 said:
@ GregH
The app is setup incorrectly.. the shunt order is 8421, not 4812 as you have it configured
Thanks, that must be it. I never touched that setting, so I don't know why it's at 4812. I will check the shunt behaviour when I have the chance.

what is this setting? What does it do, and if it is necessary to be a certain way, why do we have the option of changing it?

The best way to verify the correct shunt order (which bit in our data corresponds with which cell balancing resistor) is to see which voltages dip when the load is switched on... or of course EV1's extreme case of one really low cell and the BMS trying to bring EVERYONE else down to that level.

Sometimes after a full charge you may notice that after powering up the car it takes a few seconds for all the shunts to turn on. As the shunts turn on you can witness the voltages drop.. it goes from left to right (cell #1 to cell #96) and takes a few seconds. It's kinda cool. The pattern will persist for several on/off drive cycles as the BMS slowly bleeds down those particular cells. In general you'd expect the LOWEST voltages to be highlighted (or with a dot below in LeafDD) as these are the voltages being slowly discharged. They were too high at some point in the past but now the BMS has made the decision for whatever reason to bleed them down a little. It takes a while.
 
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