Chevrolet Spark EV

cwerdna said:

^^^
Interesting. I don't track the UK car market and am surprised to learn of Chevy in the UK. I'd figure they'd be selling Vauxhalls there. Perhaps those are only re-badged Opels? Be then again, we have multiple GM brands here in the US.

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O/T, but GM has been pushing for a return of the Chevy brand to Europe for the last several years, primarily through captive imports sourced from Asia. One of them was the second of Top Gear's cars used for its "Star in a Reasonably Priced Car" segment, the Chevrolet Lacetti aka the Suzuki Forenza.

The only Chevys officially sold in Europe which are not sourced from North America or Asia is the Cruze and the related Orlando SUV, which are built in Eastern Europe.

And you don’t have to take my word that the Spark is not that great a platform to electrify. Check out JD Power’s recently released survey of 16,000 car owners in the UK. Of the 116 qualifying cars rated for “owner satisfaction,” the Spark finished at number 116. Dead last.

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I've to wonder why GM chose Spark as the vehicle for electrification - when they already had Volt and could have used any number of other vehicles like Cruze. Why take a vehicle that comes dead last in the satisfaction surveys ?

To convince me that GM is serious about BEV they need to either do a Volt BEV or something totally new. Same for Toyota - either do a Prius BEV or something totally new.

Makes sense to start with a small car.

evnow said:

I've to wonder why GM chose Spark as the vehicle for electrification - when they already had Volt and could have used any number of other vehicles like Cruze. Why take a vehicle that comes dead last in the satisfaction surveys ?

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The loud underpowered gas motor seems to be one of the major drawbacks of the ICE Spark. One suspects that the electric version will be a lot quicker and a lot quieter.

If the ICE version comes in at the bottom of JD Powers, and the EV version comes in near the top, might change a few minds.

Anyone who has ever looked in or driven a Spark knows that the ICE is only one of its long list of problems...

WetEV said:

The loud underpowered gas motor seems to be one of the major drawbacks of the ICE Spark.

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TomT said:

Anyone who has ever looked in or driven a Spark knows that the ICE is only one of its long list of problems...

WetEV said:

The loud underpowered gas motor seems to be one of the major drawbacks of the ICE Spark.

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Yes, unless somehow they dramatically improve the build quality I doubt anyone but GM/domestics fans will like Spark EV. You simply can't offer a $13k car to someone used to buying $25 to $35k cars. I think most would consider Camry/Prius/Leaf build quality as the minimum requirement. This is one of the reasons Mitsu i did so poorly - and no one wanted to buy a Coda.

evnow said:

TomT said:

Anyone who has ever looked in or driven a Spark knows that the ICE is only one of its long list of problems...

WetEV said:

The loud underpowered gas motor seems to be one of the major drawbacks of the ICE Spark.

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Yes, unless somehow they dramatically improve the build quality I doubt anyone but GM/domestics fans will like Spark EV. You simply can't offer a $13k car to someone used to buying $25 to $35k cars. I think most would consider Camry/Prius/Leaf build quality as the minimum requirement. This is one of the reasons Mitsu i did so poorly - and no one wanted to buy a Coda.

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I think people didn't want to buy the i because of its too short range and anemic performance, at a price not far short of the Leaf. No one wanted to buy a Coda because no one wanted to take a chance on a small startup using a sleep-inducing decade old glider design built in China, for a high price, when the Leaf was available. Build quality etc. was a ways down the list of Coda's problems. Chevy, OTOH, will be around. And affordable BEVs work best as city/commute cars, and most of the rest of the world buys much smaller cars than we do in the U.S., so I think the choice of the Spark instead of the Cruze for electrification makes sense. Of course they might have chosen the Sonic instead, but I don't know how widely that's sold around the world.

GRA said:

I think people didn't want to buy the i because of its too short range and anemic performance, at a price not far short of the Leaf.

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IIRC the 2012 pricing had quite a bit of differential...$5-7k depending on model. Now that the cheapest Leaf is actually cheaper than any iMiEV, there is no way Mitsubishi can sell them without huge discounts, like the $8k off someone mentioned in the iMiEV thread.

Mitsubishi has its own problems selling its other cars here, and many folks who follow the car industry are wondering when they (and Suzuki) are going to finally fall of the American automotive landscape.

No one wanted to buy a Coda because no one wanted to take a chance on a small startup using a sleep-inducing decade old glider design built in China, for a high price, when the Leaf was available. Build quality etc. was a ways down the list of Coda's problems.

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The sleep-inducing styling is not the reason....otherwise, nobody would buy a Camry. :lol: Old designs can sell well if you price them cheap enough (the recently discontinued Ford Ranger is a great example). The reason is why should someone spend all that money on a start up like Coda, with all the unknowns that go with it, when you can get a better product from Nissan for about the same money? And hindsight being 20/20, those non-buyers turned out to be correct, as Coda has entered the world of extinct automotive nameplates.

Generally positive review of the gas Spark at ABG:

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/06/11/2013-chevy-spark-review/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ITestStuff said:

Makes sense to start with a small car.

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Tesla questioned that conventional wisdom and so far is the only one with a winner on their hands. Why not an ev impala? With 40 kwh.

LTLFTcomposite said:

ITestStuff said:

Makes sense to start with a small car.

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Tesla questioned that conventional wisdom and so far is the only one with a winner on their hands. Why not an ev impala? With 40 kwh.

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Cost? Who is going to buy that very expensive 40 kWh Impala? Surely not the wealthy folks who are purchasing the Tesla S instead of a BMW or Mercedes.

The advantage of a small car is that the lower weight and small cross-sectional area (low drag) means that fewer expensive (and heavy) batteries are needed to give it a reasonable urban-commuter range at an affordable price. It is a reasonable approach, assuming that the manufacturer is serious about making BEVs a success, something that remains an open question for GM.

dgpcolorado said:

Who is going to buy that very expensive 40 kWh Impala?

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Price doesn't seem to be that big an inhibitor to people, I bet there are a lot more takers for a pricey full sized sedan than there are for a micro car. Have you looked at the spark? Seriously. that thing put the E in Tine-EE, other than some high school kids you won't get many takers there. This car is bad for EV adoption, almost as bad as the imev, furthering the golf cart stereotype.

LTLFTcomposite said:

dgpcolorado said:

Who is going to buy that very expensive 40 kWh Impala?

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Price doesn't seem to be that big an inhibitor to people, I bet there are a lot more takers for a pricey full sized sedan than there are for a micro car. Have you looked at the spark? Seriously. that thing put the E in Tine-EE, other than some high school kids you won't get many takers there. This car is bad for EV adoption, almost as bad as the imev, furthering the golf cart stereotype.

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You may be right but it seems there may be some other things to think about.
a) USA slant/perspective tho?
b) I have a friend that drives a mini-cooper because it is fun and likes the performance (a little go-kart-ish).

BTW, they put the SPORT button near the shifter on the SPARK EV and it is not a "mode" (hold,normal,mtn). Rumor is that it does more than remap the "normal" pedal to be more aggressive in the early foot pressure/travel. (By comparison remember in the Volt the SPORT and NORMAL are the same if you push it to the floor).

dgpcolorado said:

The advantage of a small car is that the lower weight and small cross-sectional area (low drag) means that fewer expensive (and heavy) batteries are needed to give it a reasonable urban-commuter range at an affordable price.

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Just too many me-too cars chasing a very small compliance EV market. Even the definitely not me-too RAV4EV has problems selling.

LTLFTcomposite said:

dgpcolorado said:

Who is going to buy that very expensive 40 kWh Impala?

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Price doesn't seem to be that big an inhibitor to people, I bet there are a lot more takers for a pricey full sized sedan than there are for a micro car. Have you looked at the spark? Seriously. that thing put the E in Tine-EE, other than some high school kids you won't get many takers there. This car is bad for EV adoption, almost as bad as the imev, furthering the golf cart stereotype.

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No, it isn't as if I would EVER see a Spark around here. I do like the roominess of the LEAF but if a Spark-type vehicle were significantly cheaper for the range I would have considered it (I used to drive a '73 Honda Civic, so I do know tiny and "tinny"). And the subcompact Honda Fit-EV compliance car is reported to have quite good performance.

One of the things I didn't like about the Volt after driving it for several hours was how cramped it felt and how awkward it was to get in and out of (I am fairly tall). Getting back into my LEAF was a relief. So, I may have been spoiled by driving somewhat more spacious cars over the years, but price does matter to me because I am on a fairly tight budget. Not everyone can afford $40k or $50k for a car like your "40 kWh Impala". (Nevermind the $85k Tesla S land yacht that wouldn't even fit in my garage.)

Here in the East Bay I'm averaging just under 1 Spark sighting per day, and it's not kids driving them. Recently I've been seeing Sparks more frequently than I see Leafs or Volts (yesterday I saw, or perhaps more accurately recognized, only my second FFE). So there's definitely a market here, and the only question is whether the EV version will be taken to as eagerly in the bay area as the Leaf S, 500e and HFE (since the lease price reductions). Except in San Francisco with its atrocious parking and relatively large number of public charging spots, I have my doubts about the commercial viability of the Smart ED outside of car-sharing.

New 2014 Chevrolet Spark EV At Select Dealerships Now

http://insideevs.com/new-2014-chevrolet-spark-evs-at-select-dealerships-now/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

CR seems to like it.

First drive: The Chevrolet Spark EV shocks us:
http://autos.yahoo.com/news/first-drive-chevrolet-spark-ev-shocks-us-220022460.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

cwerdna said:

CR seems to like it.
First drive: The Chevrolet Spark EV shocks us:
http://autos.yahoo.com/news/first-drive-chevrolet-spark-ev-shocks-us-220022460.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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FYI, the "Sport" mode is now a separate button (just below the shifter near traction control) and works independent of Drive/Low(max-regen). It is supposed to work differently than the Volt's "sport" mode which just remaps the pedal to be more aggressive earlier in the throw. Pushed to the floor the Volt's "sport" mode is the same as "normal". Not sure how the Spark's is different.

The shifter has two modes: "Drive" works like a conventional automatic transmission without aggressive regenerative braking. "Low" maximizes regenerative braking and slows the car down as soon as you lift off the accelerator.

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The high torque motor in the Spark is revolutionary. It gives great performance and much more efficiency at higher speeds. We'll see all the EV makers adopt the approach. If the Leaf has the technology in the Spark we'd be getting more range and the Leaf would be much more responsive.

On the Spark EV being better than the gas equivalents, I suspect the same will be true of the Fiat 500e. These smaller cars are made for EV drive trains.