Will be "Better Place" a better place for me?

The whole economic model behind PBP is that battery swaps would be RARE, you know that whole 40 miles of range is plenty for a lot of people. Customers still would do the majority of their charging at home and a lesser amount at PBP parking spots with L2.

Herm said:

The whole economic model behind PBP is that battery swaps would be RARE, you know that whole 40 miles of range is plenty for a lot of people. Customers still would do the majority of their charging at home and a lesser amount at PBP parking spots with L2.

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not for the estimated 40 million potential EV owners who dont have garages, driveways OR carports

Better Place Israel CEO quits:
http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/docview.asp?did=1000798389&fid=1725" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Better Place Inc. today announced that its COO and Better Place Israel CEO Moshe Kaplinksy is leaving the electric car venture. His departure comes less than a month after the ouster of Better Place CEO Shai Agassi and his replacement by Better Place Australia CEO Evan Thornley...

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DaveinOlyWA said:

Herm said:

The whole economic model behind PBP is that battery swaps would be RARE, you know that whole 40 miles of range is plenty for a lot of people. Customers still would do the majority of their charging at home and a lesser amount at PBP parking spots with L2.

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not for the estimated 40 million potential EV owners who dont have garages, driveways OR carports

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How many potential EV owners that DO have garages, driveways OR carports?

Herm said:

DaveinOlyWA said:

Herm said:

The whole economic model behind PBP is that battery swaps would be RARE, you know that whole 40 miles of range is plenty for a lot of people. Customers still would do the majority of their charging at home and a lesser amount at PBP parking spots with L2.

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not for the estimated 40 million potential EV owners who dont have garages, driveways OR carports

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How many potential EV owners that DO have garages, driveways OR carports?

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BP also pays for your home electricity which includes installing station and maintaining it.

i still think BP has a great idea and the model will do well but i also think that it is simply too far ahead of the game. its like inventing an egg carton before the concept of chickens was dreamed up. great ideas must satisfy a need and the need is there but too small.

Israel is a near perfect place for BP. small, densely populated, very high fuel prices. It will be very interesting to see how BP does in Denmark; area of greatest EV adoption and demand. the only sticking point i see at this time is being compatible with a single vehicle. considering the market share the LEAF has in Denmark. BP's first order of business should be figuring out a cheap retrofit of other EVs to broaden their potential market

DaveinOlyWA said:

Herm said:

How many potential EV owners that DO have garages, driveways OR carports?

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BP also pays for your home electricity which includes installing station and maintaining it.

i still think BP has a great idea and the model will do well but i also think that it is simply too far ahead of the game. its like inventing an egg carton before the concept of chickens was dreamed up. great ideas must satisfy a need and the need is there but too small.

Israel is a near perfect place for BP. small, densely populated, very high fuel prices. It will be very interesting to see how BP does in Denmark; area of greatest EV adoption and demand. the only sticking point i see at this time is being compatible with a single vehicle. considering the market share the LEAF has in Denmark. BP's first order of business should be figuring out a cheap retrofit of other EVs to broaden their potential market

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If nothing else, lots of BEVs in Denmark would give them something to do with some of their excess wind production, which they otherwise have to export to Norway and Germany.

Better Place firing another 150-200:
http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/docview.asp?did=1000802756&fid=942" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Death watch:

"Meanwhile Better Place has reported that it only sold 23 cars in November - the lowest figure since it started marketing vehicles this year. Sources inform "Globes" that the major leasing companies that signed agreements with Better Place have frozen all new orders from the electric vehicle company, including from institutional customers who had already ordered cars. This will remain in force until the business picture at Better Place becomes clear or sufficient financial guarantees are provided to meet commitments to buy the cars that will be returned to the leasing companies."

as usual, seeing beyond our noses is something we simply fail to do effectively. Letting BP fail is a mistake.

they need to adjust their business model and get help from auto manufacturers to increase the # of compatible vehicles. They have a good idea. just too soon. problem with being early; people are too slow to realize what is good for them.

ABG: Better Place's second CEO in four months steps down:
http://green.autoblog.com/2013/01/18/better-places-second-ceo-in-four-months-steps-down/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Better Place shuts down US, Australian operations:
http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/docview.asp?did=1000820064&fid=1725" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Electric car venture Better Place Inc. is pulling the plug on its operations in Australia and the US, and will focus on Israel and Denmark.

In a statement, the company said, "Following the decision by Better Place to focus on delivering on its strategy in Denmark and Israel, where the complete infrastructure is in place and commercial operations are fully underway, consultations are underway with a view to securing an orderly wind-down of its non-core activities in North America and limiting any further investment in Australia beyond its current commitments."...

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cwerdna said:

Better Place shuts down US, Australian operations:
http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/docview.asp?did=1000820064&fid=1725" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Electric car venture Better Place Inc. is pulling the plug on its operations in Australia and the US, and will focus on Israel and Denmark.

In a statement, the company said, "Following the decision by Better Place to focus on delivering on its strategy in Denmark and Israel, where the complete infrastructure is in place and commercial operations are fully underway, consultations are underway with a view to securing an orderly wind-down of its non-core activities in North America and limiting any further investment in Australia beyond its current commitments."...

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The Bay Area taxi program (see p 2 of this thread) has reportedly been cancelled.

I wonder if the millions-of-dollars-per-cab grants have already been spent, or if the money can now be shifted to fund the practical method of public BEV refueling-DC fast-charge stations.

...Loss-making Better Place will close its Palo Alto office, says the San Francisco Business Times, as well as its Australian base.

The former was set up to establish an electric taxi program linking San Francisco, San Jose and Oakland, saysForbes. These plans were changed to a small fleet of electric taxis operating out of San Francisco and San Jose airports, using Better Place's battery-switch scheme.

This too is now cancelled...

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http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1082151_better-place-bails-out-of-both-u-s-and-australia" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I never understood the sanity of marketing an electric car in the US or Australia.. think Mad Max and your electric running out of charge in the desert.. and yes, LA is pretty arid.

Europe, NYC etc it would be great.

Herm said:

I never understood the sanity of marketing an electric car in the US or Australia.. think Mad Max and your electric running out of charge in the desert.. and yes, LA is pretty arid.

Europe, NYC etc it would be great.

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The US is/was the #1 auto market in the world. Now (OTOH), it's #2. Australia on the other hand has a small population so it's not a large auto market compared to the US or China. California and Texas each have populations larger than Australia. California also makes sense its the most populous state in the US and has ZEV mandates.

Much of Europe is in terrible economic shape w/high unemployment, actual recessions and w/numerous automakers (European and non) w/money losing divisions there. NYC? I sure as heck wouldn't want to drive or own a car in NYC. Driving and parking there is nuts, IMHO (from my observations after 3 trips there). How large an auto market is NYC by itself? It'd certainly not be enough by itself for an automaker's only US presence.

And, I'm sure you're aware of CA's ZEV mandates (I only have glance thru slides and posts about it).... Nissan decided to go beyond just a CA compliance car. I'm guessing that they can sell ZEV credits as a means up making for the costs of the Leaf program.

Better Place receives "going concern" warning:
http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/docview.asp?did=1000831870&fid=1724" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Better Place Reports Loss Of $454 Million In 2012, Is “Going Concern”:
http://insideevs.com/just-go-bankrupt-already-better-place-reports-loss-of-454-million-in-2012-is-going-concern/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Volume needed and is not there to survive. Much cheaper to build QC stations and space them to make long distance trips possible.

ABG: Carlos Ghosn says no more battery swap cars:
http://green.autoblog.com/2013/05/03/carlos-ghosn-says-no-more-battery-swap-cars/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2013/05/24/exclusive-better-place-to-file-for-bankruptcy/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

FORTUNE -- Electric car company Better Place is planning to file for bankruptcy within the next several days, Fortune has learned.

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http://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2013/05/06/israel-april-2013-hyundai-i35-edges-past-ford-focus/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

comparing the 2 Renault's Fluence vs Megane, it strongly suggests that the majority of the Fluence are the Better Place ZE edition. So despite the current global negative outlook, it looks like Better Place Israel (Fluence is April's 5th best selling car in Israel) is about 3-6 months Nissan Norway in terms of vehicle ranking in general market.

In other words, battery swapping has entered the mainstream in Israel, Israel only

Better Place files for bankruptcy:
http://www.timesofisrael.com/better-place-files-for-bankruptcy/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Better Place to be liquidated:
http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/docview.asp?did=1000846590" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Death of Better Place: Electric car co. to dissolve:
http://www.jpost.com/Business/Business-News/Death-of-Better-Place-Electric-car-co-to-dissolve-314380" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Better Place CEO: A missed opportunity:
http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/docview.asp?did=1000846696" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

An issue that hadn't really occurred to me, until it was written:

Might the liquidator decide to take the battery and leave a useless car?

"Ownership of the car is different for each customer, and it's true that the customer doesn’t own the battery. This is the first thing that the liquidator will have to examine, and it's hard to give an answer now."

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