Range issues

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RickV

New member
Joined
Jan 22, 2013
Messages
2
I was told by my dealership that the car would only get 46 miles for full charge. Anyone else having a problem with range?
 
RickV said:
I was told by my dealership that the car would only get 46 miles for full charge. Anyone else having a problem with range?

Did they tell you this before or after you bought the car?
 
RickV said:
I was told by my dealership that the car would only get 46 miles for full charge. Anyone else having a problem with range?

The only way you could only get 46 miles is by blasting the heat, driving freeway speeds, and having very cold temps.
 
It's been between 3 and 15 degrees lately where I live, which means I've had a crash course in how cold weather, snow-covered roads, and climate control use affect the range of my Leaf. I think it's quite possible that you will only get 46 miles on a full charge, although even in single-digit temperatures I've been able to do better than that. While there are many variables at play, I can say for sure that you're not going to get 73 miles on one charge in the winter if it gets cold where you live.
 
Publius said:
It's been between 3 and 15 degrees lately where I live, which means I've had a crash course in how cold weather, snow-covered roads, and climate control use affect the range of my Leaf. I think it's quite possible that you will only get 46 miles on a full charge, although even in single-digit temperatures I've been able to do better than that. While there are many variables at play, I can say for sure that you're not going to get 73 miles on one charge in the winter if it gets cold where you live.
Well, I do. But you are right that "there are many variables at play":

Increases range:
• I don't need to use the cabin heater when pushing the range because I dress warmly in winter, am acclimated to it, and often get help from the sun here in sunny Colorado
• High altitude = reduced air resistance (8000 feet to 5700 feet)
• Some of my driving is at slower speeds, such as 35 mph, and I never exceed 60 mph on the highway, which is the speed limit
• Mostly dry roads, if roads are snowpacked I wouldn't attempt a 70 mile trip
• Car lives in a garage that generally stays above freezing so the battery pack usually doesn't get cold-soaked

Decreases range:
• Cold weather (of course)
• Large elevation changes of about 2300 feet
• Some dirt road driving
• My battery pack is more than a year old and the winter range has decreased somewhat
 
LEAFfan said:
The only way you could only get 46 miles is by blasting the heat, driving freeway speeds, and having very cold temps.

Most of my trip is 45-55MPH, I drive in eco mode, heater is on auto (not blasting, only lukewarm air comes out), and temps are in the teens- I get 45 miles. If I drove on the freeway doing 70MPH, I would probably have 35 miles on a 100% charge. People don't realize how much of an impact cold weather has on the LEAF and how much energy it takes to keep the cabin even 60F.

I just did a test tonight: In eco mode with the heater set to 78F, after over 35 minutes, the temperature in the cabin went from 19F to only 59F. I have never had the car heat the cabin to the desired temperature.
 
kubel said:
I just did a test tonight: In eco mode with the heater set to 78F, after over 35 minutes, the temperature in the cabin went from 19F to only 59F. I have never had the car heat the cabin to the desired temperature.

Your heater sounds suspect. Is it pulling the 4500 - 6000kW according to the gauge?
 
planet4ever said:
But kubel said ECO mode. That limits the heater to 1.5kW.

There is no such limit. Heater is really using 1 - 1,5kW in ECO mode on moderate cold (-5C ... 0C). E.g. yesterday was -3C and I so heating consumption as on 1kW also on 1,5kW.

Without ECO it will just heat FASTER pushing about 4-5kW in beginning. But then 1- 1,5kW is really enough to keep needed temperature inside. So ECO is just limiting speed of heating, but it is not a problem if car is preheated from socket.

But at -20C it uses 3kW even in ECO mode, and about 2kW at -10C. So there is no such 1,5kW limit.
 
Den said:
But at -20C it uses 3kW even in ECO mode, and about 2kW at -10C. So there is no such 1,5kW limit.
Thanks for the correction. It's never been cold enough where I am to see that. The lowest I've seen when driving is about +3C, and at that temperature or higher (without preheating) it starts at 4.5kW in D, but at 1.5kW in ECO. Ah, the sins of extrapolation!

Ray
 
Today I went for a scenic 60+ mile drive, using cabin heater (almost full time) and both front seat heaters (as needed.) Temperature 40-50F with light wind and several thousand feet of climbing (and descending.)

I was careful not to speed, and stayed below the 55mph limit on skyline because it was a beautiful sunset.

The Leaf is a 2012 SL bought new in June 2012, about 8000 miles on the odometer.

START: Santa Clara CA, battery at 100%
South on Lawrence Expy,
South on Saratoga Ave
South on Highway 9
North on Skyline Boulevard (CA-35)
East at 84 (Woodside Rd)
South at El Camino Real (82) to Mountain View (grabbed a burrito)
South on 101 to Sunnyvale (Spirent QC)
Lawrence to Santa Clara (END)

I don't usually take El Camino Real for this drive, but today I was scouting for dinner.

Spirent QC in Sunnyvale is only 6 miles from home and pushed the charge in fast since I was down to 2 bars (30% according to the Blink QC). I could have easily gone straight home, but there were good reasons to use it.

- the charge was free
- I still don't have a 240V EVSE at home, so it is nice to QC after a long drive to quickly get above 50% SOC.
- I stopped it after 19 minutes when it reached 78% indicated on the Blink - that's 48% added in 19 minutes!
- Spirent has some nice outdoor tables and seating for picnicking while you charge
- sometimes you meet nice people at the QC and it's fun to compare notes

It would be really nice if QC locations all had a bathroom nearby. I wasn't in dire distress, but the thought did occur to me while I was waiting (in 50 degree air).

Got home around 10 pm. The 110V trickle charger reached 80% SOC just before 4 am. Obviously the onboard charger is erring on the safe side to avoid overcharging / overheating during QC. If this keeps my vehicle from "venting with flame" then I don't mind it so much.
 
Nice report, thanks.
MaxPower said:
Obviously the onboard charger is erring on the safe side to avoid overcharging / overheating during QC.
Just to clarify, here is a rough graphic of power flow during charging. (Note: sizes of the boxes are not meant to reflect sizes of the hardware involved.)
ChargingFlow.png

As you can see, the onboard charger is not directly involved in power transfer during Quick Charge. It does indirectly play a small role, however. Regardless of power source, the Lithium Battery Controller (LBC) computer sends orders as to the voltage currently required for charging. This varies depending on the state of the battery (especially charge level and temperature). It is the onboard charger computer which monitors those orders, and carries them out in the case of trickle or normal charging. For Quick Charge it merely maps them blindly into CHAdeMO interface and sends them on to the external Quick Charger.

Ray
 
I live in Las Vegas. I drive in eco mode and never use the heater. Two months after I bought the card, the dealer told me to expect only about 46 miles per full charge. That is about the mileage that my car has been getting. What were you told about mileage when you bought your Leafs?
 
RickV said:
I live in Las Vegas. I drive in eco mode and never use the heater. Two months after I bought the card, the dealer told me to expect only about 46 miles per full charge. That is about the mileage that my car has been getting. What were you told about mileage when you bought your Leafs?

If you are driving 46 miles from 100% charge to DEAD or Turtle mode with no heater in mild Las Vegas, there something wrong with your car (and your dealer for telling you that).

What other people were told has no relevance on your 46 miles. The car is EPA rated for 73 miles, and Nissan claims it will do 100 miles "average" in the USA, 124 to 142 miles in Japan, and 109 miles in Europe.
 
RickV said:
I live in Las Vegas. I drive in eco mode and never use the heater.

At what speed do you drive for your commute? ECO mode won't help at highway speeds, but driving slower will. Do you still have all 12 of your battery capacity bars, on the far right side of your dash?
 
planet4ever said:
Den said:
But at -20C it uses 3kW even in ECO mode, and about 2kW at -10C. So there is no such 1,5kW limit.
Thanks for the correction. It's never been cold enough where I am to see that. The lowest I've seen when driving is about +3C, and at that temperature or higher (without preheating) it starts at 4.5kW in D, but at 1.5kW in ECO. Ah, the sins of extrapolation!

Ray

When it is between +20 and +30F (-6 to -1C) and I'm driving in ECO mode, my heater takes as much as 4.5kW. I have never seen the heat use as little as 1.5kW -- it might eventually get down to only using 2.5kW once the cabin is a bit warmer. I only drive in ECO. On short trips, or when temperatures are above 40F (4.5C), I don't bother with heat. Last Friday, when we had an ice storm, I needed heat in order to keep the ice from forming on the windshield. Without it, I was looking out of an increasingly small window on the windshield. It used 4.5kW, in ECO.
 
TonyWilliams said:
RickV said:
I live in Las Vegas. I drive in eco mode and never use the heater. Two months after I bought the card, the dealer told me to expect only about 46 miles per full charge. That is about the mileage that my car has been getting. What were you told about mileage when you bought your Leafs?

If you are driving 46 miles from 100% charge to DEAD or Turtle mode with no heater in mild Las Vegas, there something wrong with your car (and your dealer for telling you that).

What other people were told has no relevance on your 46 miles. The car is EPA rated for 73 miles, and Nissan claims it will do 100 miles "average" in the USA, 124 to 142 miles in Japan, and 109 miles in Europe.



Maybe this is a case of the dealers starting to change their message to new buyers to prevent disappointing some. If so, seems like they are under selling the range capability a bit.
 
at 80% charge and my lighter foot than the wife, I get around 70miles my efficiency gauge runs around 3.4-4.1 mi/kWh. Wife drives harder, faster and avg/s 2.2-2.5 yet she only does short jaunts to and from gym, food store and mall. range isnt a factor for her. I'll be testing the 100mi club track record here soon when I can manage no heat and decent temps. Sorry to hear the dealer would immediately say 46miles of range. I spoke with my dealer and expressed the ease of getting 70miles of range with combined city/hwy and that they should shy away from the 100mile mark but state that the car "could" go 100miles in ideal warm conditions with a gentle driver. Honesty always helps, So when somone thinks they can go 70 but ends up much further...smiles and respect for the vehicle and salesperson for not expressing false information.
 
nlagnew said:
planet4ever said:
Den said:
But at -20C it uses 3kW even in ECO mode, and about 2kW at -10C. So there is no such 1,5kW limit.
Thanks for the correction. It's never been cold enough where I am to see that. The lowest I've seen when driving is about +3C, and at that temperature or higher (without preheating) it starts at 4.5kW in D, but at 1.5kW in ECO. Ah, the sins of extrapolation!

Ray
When it is between +20 and +30F (-6 to -1C) and I'm driving in ECO mode, my heater takes as much as 4.5kW. I have never seen the heat use as little as 1.5kW -- it might eventually get down to only using 2.5kW once the cabin is a bit warmer. I only drive in ECO. On short trips, or when temperatures are above 40F (4.5C), I don't bother with heat. Last Friday, when we had an ice storm, I needed heat in order to keep the ice from forming on the windshield. Without it, I was looking out of an increasingly small window on the windshield. It used 4.5kW, in ECO.
We need to draw the distinction between the "heater" and defrosting. When the defrost button is pushed the heater will draw 4-5 kW regardless of whether the car is in D or Eco, until the heater bottle is warmed up, at which point the power draw declines. That is a safety issue, I presume. However, when just cabin heating is selected, driving in Eco is supposed to limit the heater draw (unless the temperature is set to 90ºF, according to others here):
• When the vehicle is in the ECO position, the climate control operates in the ECO mode which reduces the power consumption.
LEAF manual, page 4-13

It has been some time since I experimented with this since I rarely use the heater except for defogging/defrosting. My recollection was that it did work that way. So, when you say that the "heater takes as much as 4.5kW", my guess is that you are talking about using the defroster, right?
 
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