2013 LEAF Pricing and Features-S:28,800 SV:31,820 SL:34,840

cwerdna said:

madbrain said:

I just saw one 2011 Leaf SL with 12k miles listed by owner for $16,900 on craigslist in Fremont doing a very quick search.

Click to expand...

Woah! You got me searching. I found it at http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/3555281936.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. It's weird that this guy is put in a bitmap of the text instead of the text itself. And, I noticed that it says "branded title". No thanks.

Click to expand...

Guess I missed that. I did a search for the word "title" put of course with the bitmap it didn't work.
There are still many Leafs for sale around $19k right now that are well under 39 months and without title issues.
I think it's fair to expect that my 2012 won't be worth $19k at 39 months. How much exactly, I have no idea.

You never know. Many 2-3 year old Priuses were worth almost the MSRP when they came off lease from the first generation. Heck, in 1999 I bought a used CR-V and couldn't hardly find a used one for less than the new list price. You never can tell. If the sales increase, incentives go away and used ones do well.

wantonsoup said:

You never know. Many 2-3 year old Priuses were worth almost the MSRP when they came off lease from the first generation. Heck, in 1999 I bought a used CR-V and couldn't hardly find a used one for less than the new list price. You never can tell. If the sales increase, incentives go away and used ones do well.

Click to expand...

But did Toyota drop the base price of the Prius, or Honda with the CR-V, by several grand a mere 2 years into the car's product cycle like Nissan just did with the Leaf?

The only ways I can see the older ones retaining their value despite this price drop are:

1.) A sudden increase in demand (such as gas prices spiking to $6/gallon)
2.) A sudden decrease in supply (the Japanese tsunami for example)
3.) A design change on the part of Nissan that makes the new ones less desirable for some reason, and/or more problematic.

There may be others, but I can't think of them.

If my car does end up being worth more than the residual at lease end, I can always buy it and sell at a profit. But my experience with low monthly payment leases is that the residual tends to be quite optimistic, and after Nissan's latest announcement it will be even more optimistic IMHO.

madbrain said:

cwerdna said:

madbrain said:

I just saw one 2011 Leaf SL with 12k miles listed by owner for $16,900 on craigslist in Fremont doing a very quick search.

Click to expand...

Woah! You got me searching. I found it at http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/3555281936.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. It's weird that this guy is put in a bitmap of the text instead of the text itself. And, I noticed that it says "branded title". No thanks.

Click to expand...

Guess I missed that. I did a search for the word "title" put of course with the bitmap it didn't work.
There are still many Leafs for sale around $19k right now that are well under 39 months and without title issues.
I think it's fair to expect that my 2012 won't be worth $19k at 39 months. How much exactly, I have no idea.

Click to expand...

My iPhone's Kelly Blue Book app shows a 2011 Leaf SV with 20k miles in "Very Good" condition to be worth only about $18k in my area's Private Party market. I'd like to see what that exact car will be worth 6 months and 10k miles from now once the cheaper 2013's have hit the road.

buying used can be challenging, looks like 4 capacity bars gone on this one

EdmondLeaf said:

buying used can be challenging, looks like 4 capacity bars gone on this one

Click to expand...

Nissan's capacity warranty doesn't just apply to original owners, does it?

Texas Direct Auto has 4-5 Leafs on their lot, and they don't show capacity bar photos for any of 'em

There is a obligatory battery test every 12 mo, not sure what Nissan will do if battery test are not done, details of battery warranty still unknown

What I would like to know is has anyone yet exceeded the mileage limit on the Leaf warranty? (A lot of driving.....) Taxis?

If so, how has Nissan treated you regarding the battery?

Have they still helped replace depleted battery cells even after the warranty is over?

It will be a major test of Nissan's commitment to the Leaf. Nowadays, 100,000 miles is not that much mileage on a car. If Nissan wants people to trust these cars will last as long as an average ICE before needing major repairs, they will have to do something to cover the batteries over the long haul. Goodwill repairs or something like that.

If people had to replace the engine and transmission on an ICE at 100,000 miles, no manufacturer would ever be able to sell another car.

hyperlexis said:

What I would like to know is has anyone yet exceeded the mileage limit on the Leaf warranty? (A lot of driving.....) Taxis?

Click to expand...

TaylorSFguy will be there soon. Presently somewhere between 60K and 70K miles four months shy of the second anniversary.

hyperlexis said:

If people had to replace the engine and transmission on an ICE at 100,000 miles, no manufacturer would ever be able to sell another car.

Click to expand...

That used to be very common years ago.. people need to keep in mind that an electric is equivalent to gas being $1 a gallon again, its a big advantage.

Herm said:

.. people need to keep in mind that an electric is equivalent to gas being $1 a gallon again, its a big advantage.

Click to expand...

Not so much when the equivalent ICE car costs thousands less upfront than the electric equivalent (as is currently the case).

Herm said:

That used to be very common years ago.. people need to keep in mind that an electric is equivalent to gas being $1 a gallon again, its a big advantage.

Click to expand...

Not if you live in areas of pricey electricity and are comparing to an efficient car.

I ran a few numbers before when I dug into http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=155519" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I still have my spreadsheet and haven't re-read the replies carefully yet. If I have to pay $0.24/kwh and my efficiency (including charging losses) is 3.16 kwh/mile, the cost per mile is $0.0759.

If I assume my 06 Prius gets 45 mpg (that was my lifetime average until I fell way behind in tracking it), at $3.35/gallon, the cost per mile is $0.0744.

wantonsoup said:

You never know. Many 2-3 year old Priuses were worth almost the MSRP when they came off lease from the first generation. Heck, in 1999 I bought a used CR-V and couldn't hardly find a used one for less than the new list price. You never can tell. If the sales increase, incentives go away and used ones do well.

Click to expand...

Right, we can't tell. I would say the biggest thing that could increase the resale value of used Leafs is some of the incentives going away, like the federal tax credit and other state incentives. I hope some of these will still be around when my lease expires so I can benefit from the incentives a second time, either through leasing or buying.

cwerdna said:

Herm said:

That used to be very common years ago.. people need to keep in mind that an electric is equivalent to gas being $1 a gallon again, its a big advantage.

Click to expand...

Not if you live in areas of pricey electricity and are comparing to an efficient car.

Click to expand...

Here in Utah we pay 8 cents for a coal fired kwh and 10 cents for a wind power kwh.

You folks in CA need more windmills.

KJD said:

cwerdna said:

Herm said:

That used to be very common years ago.. people need to keep in mind that an electric is equivalent to gas being $1 a gallon again, its a big advantage.

Click to expand...

Not if you live in areas of pricey electricity and are comparing to an efficient car.

Click to expand...

Here in Utah we pay 8 cents for a coal fired kwh and 10 cents for a wind power kwh.

You folks in CA need more windmills.

Click to expand...

PG&E is just a ripoff. Despite me living like an Eskimo at home (as RonDawg put it), from a post I made on Tivocommunity (you can't see it, unless you have an account there) on 12/30/12:

I live alone in a large house and running the furnace can get costly (ripoff PG&E rates don't help either), so I don't use it much at all. When I use it, I don't set the thermostat real high (60 degrees or so, ~62 degrees max). I usually leave the furnace off, letting the house fall to as low as ~50 degrees. The darn thermostat seems to read a few degrees below actual temp. One time I woke up and saw the thermostat reading 49 degrees.

I tend to use electric space heaters in the rooms I'm in and those might be between 60-67 degrees. I wear a sweater/sweatshirt + 2 jackets at home, in winter.

When I was downstairs eating earlier today, I set the thermostat to 62 or so and also used a space heater. Earlier in the afternoon, a thermometer in my kitchen said it was 56.x degrees.

Click to expand...

I've woken up to see my thermostat at 47 F (since I leave the furnace off while sleeping), meaning it's ~49-50 F inside the house.
Here's another post I made about my most recent bill:

my latest bill was $136.58 for a 12/13/12 to 1/11/13. :|

$85.99 for 76 therms of gas
$50.59 for 367 kwh of electricity
$136.58 total (including tax and fees)

PG&E claims the average temp was 47 F. It's been quite cold here lately w/temps sometimes falling below freezing at night. I've been having to use the furnace more (have seen thermostat indicating 47 F inside in the morning before, which means really ~49 or 50 F).

In the same period, PG&E says similar homes to mine use an average of 777 kwh and efficient ones use 501 kwh. For nat gas, it says similar homes use an average of 132 therms and efficient use 97 therms.

Even though I'm way below the average for similar and efficient homes, I'm over the baselines for electricity and gas this time. Tells you how much of a joke our baselines are.

Click to expand...

I don't even have an PHEV/EV yet. Try putting in your usage into http://www.pge.com/myhome/myaccount/charges/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; w/95136 zip and no for CARE. I'd be curious how about your usage for a month, your rates and what the calculator says (which is actually too low, since it doesn't include taxes and fees).

I'm usually under gas and electric baselines. Being above only happens if it's really hot or cold. The electricity portion of the bill before that was $49.61 for 366 kwh == ~13.55 cents/kwh. I was under the 386.1 kwh baseline for that month.

cwerdna said:

PG&E is just a ripoff. Despite me living like an Eskimo at home... One time I woke up and saw the thermostat reading 49 degrees.

Click to expand...

Ya... that's a bit silly, unless you are on your last dollar, starving.

I'll be they sell solar panels up there in your great white north.

TonyWilliams said:

cwerdna said:

PG&E is just a ripoff. Despite me living like an Eskimo at home... One time I woke up and saw the thermostat reading 49 degrees.

Click to expand...

Ya... that's a bit silly, unless you are on your last dollar, starving.

I'll be they sell solar panels up there in your great white north.

Click to expand...

Ha. No, I'm not, but I know how high bills can get in this house when my parents and I lived here and we didn't live like Eskimos. That was over 15 years ago. I just find it wasteful to run the furnace to heat a 5 bedroom house when I'm the only one here.

Long story about why there's no solar installed, but w/my electric bills, it doesn't seem like it'd be worth it yet, esp. when most months I'm not even beyond my baseline. Some folks get enough solar to stay out of the higher rate tiers, which is n/a for me right now.

cwerdna said:

PG&E is just a ripoff. Despite me living like an Eskimo at home (as RonDawg put it), from a post I made on Tivocommunity (you can't see it, unless you have an account there) on 12/30/12:

Click to expand...

BTW this is where the Eskimo reference comes from:

I tend to use electric space heaters in the rooms I'm in and those might be between 60-67 degrees. I wear a sweater/sweatshirt + 2 jackets at home, in winter.

Click to expand...

BRRRRR! I pre-heat my Leaf to 70 before I get into it!

cwerdna is right about PG&E being a ripoff. I'm in SoCal and he's paying at least twice if not 3x what I am paying.

naednek said:

So, we did some calling around and learned that hardly anyone in northern CA has any of the 2012 SV in stock. I found one about 40 miles away. I called my local dealership and they said they would look around but mainly said, the $199 isn't a money maker for them and it doesn't make any sense for them to buy the car from a different dealership and turn around to lease it at $199. So my options if I want this is to get it myself which isn't a big deal.

Click to expand...

Nissan of Oakland still shows 4 of the 2012 SV's in stock.

http://www.nissanofoakland.com/search/New+Nissan+Leaf+tmM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I considered trailering a Leaf from the Bay area to Eastern Washington just because the prices were that much better than locally. As far as 2012 vs. 2013, it all depends on the overall terms. A 24 month lease at 240/mo is still less expensive than $199/mo if the former is negotiated @ $0 down, $0 drive off fees vs. $$1999 down on the latter.

Gary

cwerdna said:

PG&E is just a ripoff. Despite me living like an Eskimo at home (as RonDawg put it), from a post I made on Tivocommunity (you can't see it, unless you have an account there) on 12/30/12:

I live alone in a large house and running the furnace can get costly (ripoff PG&E rates don't help either), so I don't use it much at all. When I use it, I don't set the thermostat real high (60 degrees or so, ~62 degrees max). I usually leave the furnace off, letting the house fall to as low as ~50 degrees. The darn thermostat seems to read a few degrees below actual temp. One time I woke up and saw the thermostat reading 49 degrees.

I tend to use electric space heaters in the rooms I'm in and those might be between 60-67 degrees. I wear a sweater/sweatshirt + 2 jackets at home, in winter.

When I was downstairs eating earlier today, I set the thermostat to 62 or so and also used a space heater. Earlier in the afternoon, a thermometer in my kitchen said it was 56.x degrees.

Click to expand...

I've woken up to see my thermostat at 47 F (since I leave the furnace off while sleeping), meaning it's ~49-50 F inside the house.
Here's another post I made about my most recent bill:

my latest bill was $136.58 for a 12/13/12 to 1/11/13. :|

$85.99 for 76 therms of gas
$50.59 for 367 kwh of electricity
$136.58 total (including tax and fees)
...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I keep much the same temperatures in my house to save on energy: the thermostat is set at 62º mornings and evenings and at 52º at night. During the day if it is sunny I have a lot of south-facing glass that warms things up several more degrees. In winter I wear a number of layers as a matter of routine and can generally be comfortable at 62º. At night I have blankets and the furnace only comes on in below zero outside temperatures. I don't mind cold, I can always dress for it, why waste energy heating the house to 70º or something ridiculous like that? However, I don't like very hot weather and prefer to live where it only occasionally gets above 90º in the summer. (I've never lived in a place that needed AC and hope to keep it that way!)

I used to heat with propane, which was expensive but now that I have natural gas it is much less expensive. My bill for November 27 through December 26 was $75.72 for 70 Therms. That's not bad for a place with real winters, although my house is only 1550 sq ft. But, unlike you, I paid only a minimum $15 service charge for electricity because I still have a credit balance for my solar electricity generation. So I am glad I don't have to face your high PG&E electric rates! (Here the rate from our rural power co-op is a flat 13¢/kWh, plus the service charge, not too bad.)

I'm beginning to understand some of the ire directed at PG&E rates!