so, bottom line - which EVSE, if any?

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KayfromLA

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2012
Messages
17
I am wading through the posts on EVSE's, and my brain is starting to melt.
I drive 15 to 20 miles most days, but sometimes need to go 60 or so. So far only using trickle charger but am considering the EVSE so I have that option.
Which one is best for this sort of use?
 
Well, "best" is very subjective, but since basically all EVSEs do the same thing (just fancy extension cords with safety checks), I'd say the best is the cheapest. And the cheapest way to go about getting an L2 EVSE is either to upgrade your trickle charger using evseupgrade.com or build your own a la open-evse.
 
^^^
Except some of them like the GE Wattstation seem to have the tendency to blow the Leaf's on-board charger. The Blink EVSE was buggy (not sure about now) and it seems like you'd want to be extra careful if ever charging cars that have 6.6 kW or above on-board chargers (e.g. the issues Tony Williams had when charging his Rav4 EV and the reports from Fit EV folks).
 
Can't comment on the 'best', but for the price you can not beat evseupgrade.com. Have yet to hear of any problems with the upgraded unit, but if any, I'm sure those folks would quickly remedy the problem.
 
Personally if I had to do it again I would have a 75 amp EVSE installed whether it be a clipper creek cs-100 or an open EVSE model, but that's just me. I think in 5 years having a low load EVSE will be the equivalent of driving up to a gas station and finding one of these.

3108713182_76b777cdee.jpg
 
coolfilmaker said:
Personally if I had to do it again I would have a 75 amp EVSE installed whether it be a clipper creek cs-100 or an open EVSE model, but that's just me. I think in 5 years having a low load EVSE will be the equivalent of driving up to a gas station and finding one of these.

3108713182_76b777cdee.jpg


In five years the expensive EVSE you bought will likely be far less expensive. It's certainly overpriced now. It's like buying a super fast PC for the future and the next year it costs 50% less for 2x the performance. If you need 75 amps you most likely will not be driving a Nissan EV in five years. A very low cost solution makes sense that matches the EV. Spending a premium to futre proof an EVSE is not a good investment based on todays production costs and this has been proven over the years for a variety of reasons. It will be a commodity product if EV's take off. Spending some extra on heavy pre-wire makes perfect sense. One can upgrade a Nissan EVSE for under $300 and if they get a new EV down the road the savings will likely buy something else. Even a 3.8kw EVSE is adequate for those with a 6.6kw charger because the main factor for home use is pack size. I have a 6.6kw charger and because of the LEAF pack size a 3.8kw EVSE is more then adequate. Where faster charging makes sense is when I am away from home not at home, public chargers are where I get the real utility. There are commodity electronics.
 
I have and recommend the Schnieder, Leviton 160, and V1 upgrade to travel.
Although I would recommend the full V2 as it is difficult to find less than 20 amp 240v.
 
EVDRIVER said:
coolfilmaker said:
Personally if I had to do it again I would have a 75 amp EVSE installed whether it be a clipper creek cs-100 or an open EVSE model, but that's just me. I think in 5 years having a low load EVSE will be the equivalent of driving up to a gas station and finding one of these.

3108713182_76b777cdee.jpg


In five years the expensive EVSE you bought will likely be far less expensive. It's certainly overpriced now. It's like buying a super fast PC for the future and the next year it costs 50% less for 2x the performance. If you need 75 amps you most likely will not be driving a Nissan EV in five years. A very low cost solution makes sense that matches the EV. Spending a premium to futre proof an EVSE is not a good investment based on todays production costs and this has been proven over the years for a variety of reasons. It will be a commodity product if EV's take off. Spending some extra on heavy pre-wire makes perfect sense. One can upgrade a Nissan EVSE for under $300 and if they get a new EV down the road the savings will likely buy something else. Even a 3.8kw EVSE is adequate for those with a 6.6kw charger because the main factor for home use is pack size. I have a 6.6kw charger and because of the LEAF pack size a 3.8kw EVSE is more then adequate. Where faster charging makes sense is when I am away from home not at home, public chargers are where I get the real utility. There are commodity electronics.

In five years a 75 amp EVSE will likely be a few hundred dollars less expensive, but having one installed will likely be much more expensive if it is even possible in your area.

In five years EVs will have 50-200 kwh battery packs which will need a lot of power. I doubt power companies will be able to allow customers to install EVSEs with the freedom that we now have. Our grid has been neglected and won't be able to support all of they EVs that people will be buying. The whole process of having an EVSE installed, especially one on a 100 amp circuit will be much higher.

Everyone will want to have a high power hookup in five years because of the convenience they will provide. You will be able to recharge your car the night before a long road trip rather than having to spend days preparing. A family member driving in for Thanksgiving won't be forced to stop at a quick charger, if quick chargers even exist.

Mark my words, houses with high power EVSEs will be a hot commodity in five years. Installing one now is an investment.
 
EVDRIVER said:
In five years the expensive EVSE you bought will likely be far less expensive...
+1. EVSEs are incredibly overpriced right now. In time, they should approach a cost hardly more than the cost of the copper in them. Considering that you can buy the parts to make your own for less than $200 retail right now, just imagine how low the material cost is to a company like GE, who has the gall to sell their buggy unit for $1000+.
 
coolfilmaker said:
Mark my words, houses with high power EVSEs will be a hot commodity in five years. Installing one now is an investment.
Having a high power 240V circuit to the garage is what matters. The EVSE itself will be mostly worthless (and besides that's the kind of thing I'd think most sellers would take with them, like an appliance.) Hell maybe in 5 years we'll all be using Tesla HPCs and J1772 will be obsolete anyway!
 
fooljoe said:
coolfilmaker said:
Mark my words, houses with high power EVSEs will be a hot commodity in five years. Installing one now is an investment.
Having a high power 240V circuit to the garage is what matters. The EVSE itself will be mostly worthless (and besides that's the kind of thing I'd think most sellers would take with them, like an appliance.) Hell maybe in 5 years we'll all be using Tesla HPCs and J1772 will be obsolete anyway!

It depends on if you need a permit to install an EVSE and if power companies start requiring current limiting EVSEs. I could totally see them requiring an EVSE that limits power to 16 amps because of how many people will have electric cars. I think it's likely that people with dumb EVSEs like clipper creeks would be grandfathered in.
 
16 amp limit, are you kidding me??? With a 200a panel there is no way the electric company will limit charging to 16 amps. What is next limiting the air conditioners and electric appliances? This is boom times for the electric company to make up for lost usage due to other conservation.
 
smkettner said:
16 amp limit, are you kidding me??? With a 200a panel there is no way the electric company will limit charging to 16 amps. What is next limiting the air conditioners and electric appliances? This is boom times for the electric company to make up for lost usage due to other conservation.

My point is that they could limit it to that for certain periods of time when people would like to be charging. There is a very good chance that in five years certain neighborhoods will start overloading their grids. One Tesla Model S charging uses as much juice as a whole city block!
 
fooljoe said:
EVDRIVER said:
In five years the expensive EVSE you bought will likely be far less expensive...
+1. EVSEs are incredibly overpriced right now. In time, they should approach a cost hardly more than the cost of the copper in them. Considering that you can buy the parts to make your own for less than $200 retail right now, just imagine how low the material cost is to a company like GE, who has the gall to sell their buggy unit for $1000+.
I agree they seem overpriced and I don't like the prices either but from my conversation w/a AeroVironment guy at Alt Car Expo earlier this year, my recollection is that he said that they're barely profitable for them.

As for your $200 claim, I doubt it. I added up the assembled and tested components prices, shipping at http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/wiki/Ordering" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and cheapest cable at http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/wiki/J1772CableSources" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. The total was ~$334.

Now, it seems people have contributed free labor to this project (labor at for profit companies isn't free) and there's not really any overhead that a company would have. I don't know how much testing and certification this has undergone if any (e.g. UL listing) either.
 
"Best" depends on a lot of things. For me the Leviton 160 turned out to be a pretty good deal at the time I bought it, 12/2011. It was $1K from Amazon (but it can be had for less today), the electrician charged < $200 to put in the required outlet (parts, including the breaker, and labor). No permit or inspection required by the borough. I have a detached garage with a 60A subpanel, so more than a 16A EVSE would have likely required a panel upgrade with new wiring from the main panel. The Leviton unit is very sturdy construction in a powder coated steel box, and I've not had a problem charging the LEAF, using the LEAF's timers, etc. So the Leviton 160 worked out "best" for me.
 
I've been using the schneider EVSE, and it seems to work fine. It's about $800.00 online from Home Depot and Lowes. It is an indoor only EVSE, and has a rather cheap looking plastic case.

I saw no reason to get a high current EVSE since i doubt that I'll own an electric vehicle in 5 years, and if I do it might not use the J1772 standard. I bought an EVSE for the car I have. I used the L1 EVSE for a couple of months, but one problem was that if I went anywhere after work and got home late, I wouldn't have enough time to charge the Leaf when I got home. Since the L2 EVSE will typically charge in a few hours, it gives me much more flexibility. I also wanted to be able to use cheaper time of use electric rates, so I needed a faster charge.

I work in electronics, and use microcontrollers, so I would love to build my own EVSE, but I was worried about what would happen if I needed warranty repair, and the dealer asked me what EVSE I used. For those of you who have built your own, how do you deal with that?
 
I've had no issues at all charging my Leaf the last year from a Clipper Creek LCS-25. It's a well-built unit, small and compact, made for wrapping the cord around it. Also it is a little more powerful than the 16A units since it delivers 20A. Not an issue for a 2012 Leaf, but a 2013 with a 6.6kW charger would get 4.8kW from it.

I see they have also lowered the price from $995 to $795.

http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/ClipperCreekInc/-strse-6/Level-2-EVSE,-Level/Detail.bok
 
cwerdna said:
fooljoe said:
EVDRIVER said:
In five years the expensive EVSE you bought will likely be far less expensive...
+1. EVSEs are incredibly overpriced right now. In time, they should approach a cost hardly more than the cost of the copper in them. Considering that you can buy the parts to make your own for less than $200 retail right now, just imagine how low the material cost is to a company like GE, who has the gall to sell their buggy unit for $1000+.
I agree they seem overpriced and I don't like the prices either but from my conversation w/a AeroVironment guy at Alt Car Expo earlier this year, my recollection is that he said that they're barely profitable for them.

As for your $200 claim, I doubt it. I added up the assembled and tested components prices, shipping at http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/wiki/Ordering" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and cheapest cable at http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/wiki/J1772CableSources" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. The total was ~$334.

Now, it seems people have contributed free labor to this project (labor at for profit companies isn't free) and there's not really any overhead that a company would have. I don't know how much testing and certification this has undergone if any (e.g. UL listing) either.


When you make and EVSE you don't buy off the shelf parts. The big companies are adding in loaded costs and you would be shocked to know the per unit cost and how low it is. They certainly are not going to tell you they are making a profit when everyone is bitching about how over priced they think some EVSE units are.
 
I disagree with the "future proofing" concept in general. As pack capacities increase, the need for faster at home charging decreases, IMHO. The point of a top-off at home is to add miles for additional driving. Often needed with a 24 kWH pack. But with a 90 kWH pack how often would you get home needing a quick top off? Lets assume that the car spends at least an average of ten hours per day parked and hooked up to your Evse. As long as your average daily mileage is under 100 you would be fine with 16A L2. On any particular day you could do more without a problem.

Of course there are considerations like off peak TOU. But in general I think the principle holds. The larger your reservoir the less important the fill rate becomes.
 
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