SC Leaf SV potential owner first impressions

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NSXTASY

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 27, 2012
Messages
71
Location
Greenville, SC
thats right im not an official owner yet... but a brand new SV is sitting in my driveway until next Wednesday anyway. I drove it from the dealership to my house, a 15 mile drive. I already love the way it sounds from outside when approaching at slow speed! very sci-fi imho. Inside the leaf seems well built, not premium quality but very good. its easy to drive although i feel the power steering might be a bit overboosted. The breaks are very good. The fun part is the go however... pulls like a diesel locpmotive! I arrived home with 66 miles left. (was showing 97 range when left the dealership). so i used 30 miles to do 15. Cant draw any conclusion from a single drive. We will see how this goes over the week. Average was 3.3 m/kWh)... is that good, average or poor? temperature was 50F and my drive home was 50/50 mix highway and city on relatively level ground... when i plugged it in ising the on board coard, it said 4hr on 240V or 7:30 on 120V. My commute every day is 20 miles so it should be logistically feasible to recharche overnight.
so first impressions very good. Not ready to pull the trigger yet ( a sub $200 leaae would do it!) bit it might grow on me over the week.
 
NSXTASY said:
...I arrived home with 66 miles left. (was showing 97 range when left the dealership). so i used 30 miles to do 15. Cant draw any conclusion from a single drive. We will see how this goes over the week...
The very first thing you need to learn about the LEAF is to ignore the "Distance to Empty" meter. Here at MNL it is called the "Guess-o-meter" (GOM) because it doesn't accurately predict range. (How could it know whether you are going to be driving faster, slower, uphill, downhill, in wind, etc.?) Instead you need to learn how many fuel bars it takes you to make various destinations under various driving conditions. To get an idea of how far you can go at a given speed check out Tony Williams' Range Chart. Be sure to consider the footnotes about temperature adjustments and the like. (And if your typical trips don't stretch the range of the LEAF, just ignore it all and enjoy the ride.)
Average was 3.3 m/kWh)... is that good, average or poor? temperature was 50F and my drive home was 50/50 mix highway and city on relatively level ground...
3.3 miles/kWh is fairly poor at that speed and temperature. But, did you reset the meter before making the trip? If not, it may include some low efficiency driving prior to your trip. I suggest resetting one of the two meters—you have two, one on the dash and one on the console—before leaving home each day so that you can see how you are doing on a daily basis.
when i plugged it in ising the on board coard, it said 4hr on 240V or 7:30 on 120V. My commute every day is 20 miles so it should be logistically feasible to recharche overnight.
so first impressions very good. Not ready to pull the trigger yet ( a sub $200 leaae would do it!) bit it might grow on me over the week.
With a 20 mile commute you can easily recharge at 120 V overnight. A lot of people here with short commutes use only 120 V charging. If you haven't already done so, set your charge timer to 80% since there is no need for 100% charging unless you are going to make a long trip. And if you do charge to 100%, never leave the car at that level for more than a few hours. Even though you plan to lease, if you actually decide to do so there is no reason to abuse the battery.
 
dgpcolorado said:
NSXTASY said:
...I arrived home with 66 miles left. (was showing 97 range when left the dealership). so i used 30 miles to do 15. Cant draw any conclusion from a single drive. We will see how this goes over the week...
The very first thing you need to learn about the LEAF is to ignore the "Distance to Empty" meter. Here at MNL it is called the "Guess-o-meter" (GOM) because it doesn't accurately predict range. (How could it know whether you are going to be driving faster, slower, uphill, downhill, in wind, etc.?)
.
this was my first guess... thank you for your advise!
Average was 3.3 m/kWh)... is that good, average or poor? temperature was 50F and my drive home was 50/50 mix highway and city on relatively level ground...
3.3 miles/kWh is fairly poor at that speed and temperature. But, did you reset the meter before making the trip? If not, it may include some low efficiency driving prior to your trip. I suggest resetting one of the two meters—you have two, one on the dash and one on the console—before leaving home each day so that you can see how you are doing on a daily basis.
I hadnt reset it. this was probably over the 846 miles it did since new. I just reset it before I went back out to pick up my daughter. Over 12 miles I did 4.0... still learning how to drive it and all. This model is a 2011 :eek: Maybe I can get a way better deal than the one they initially offered me... I'll post more about that on my other thread
With a 20 mile commute you can easily recharge at 120 V overnight. A lot of people here with short commutes use only 120 V charging. If you haven't already done so, set your charge timer to 80% since there is no need for 100% charging unless you are going to make a long trip. And if you do charge to 100%, never leave the car at that level for more than a few hours. Even though you plan to lease, if you actually decide to do so there is no reason to abuse the battery.
I need to understand that as I was not aware and I was always under the impression a battery needed to be stored at 100. Do you have any links handy to share ?
thank you again for all your help. I 'm liking it a bit more with each mile...
 
NSXTASY said:
dgpcolorado said:
With a 20 mile commute you can easily recharge at 120 V overnight. A lot of people here with short commutes use only 120 V charging. If you haven't already done so, set your charge timer to 80% since there is no need for 100% charging unless you are going to make a long trip. And if you do charge to 100%, never leave the car at that level for more than a few hours. Even though you plan to lease, if you actually decide to do so there is no reason to abuse the battery.
I need to understand that as I was not aware and I was always under the impression a battery needed to be stored at 100. Do you have any links handy to share ?
thank you again for all your help. I 'm liking it a bit more with each mile...
No, never leave Li-ion batteries at 100%, they are completely different from the lead-acid batteries cars have been using for years; that's why I mentioned it! If you check the owner's manual it suggests charging to 80%; I think it calls this the "long-life mode". The business about best battery practices has been so much discussed here that I don't think I could find one or a few threads specific to it. But, be aware that Li-ion batteries do NOT do well when left at 100% or at low charge, say below 20%. They will likely hold up better if kept between 20% and 60% or so. And they do not like heat. Cold reduces capacity but doesn't hurt the battery. Heat kills them.

If you need to charge to 100% go ahead and do so, just use an "end-time-only" charge timer to finish the charge right before you leave. A few hours at 100% is no big deal, leaving it at 100% for days will cause premature degradation. Don't do that.

If you want to charge to 80% every time you plug-in so that you don't have to fuss with it, I suggest setting one of the charge timers to 80% with the same start time and end time, say 1 PM. Then set it for all seven days of the week. That way when you plug-in, the car will charge to 80% no matter what time of day. If you leave the charge timers off the car will charge to 100% every time you plug-in. That's why I mentioned it: lots of people don't read the manual and don't set the timers.

A more sophisticated way to set a charge timer is to use an end-time-only, perhaps the time of day when you leave for work. Then the car will finish charging before you leave—it always finishes a bit early—and it won't sit at a high state of charge for very long. If you have the car charged to 80% and want more charge for a longer trip, you can just hit the override button to the left of the steering wheel and it will keep charging until you unplug or it gets to 100%. That is sometimes easier than setting a timer to 100% or turning the timers off. Be aware that if you unplug after override, it defaults back to your timer setting when replugged.

I realize that all this is a lot to absorb, so I'll leave it there. I suggest reading the manual and then asking questions about things that aren't clear.
 
Check this post for manual links:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=11049" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, imho, when evaluating your range requirements, don't look at only today, look at the range you'll need at the end of the loan/lease. If your range requirements are in the 60-70 mile range you may be disappointed long term. If you're closer to 40-50 miles then you should be golden.
 
NSXTASY said:
thats right im not an official owner yet... but a brand new SV is sitting in my driveway until next Wednesday anyway.
A 2011 LEAF is definitely not "brand new". Even if it has never been sold and has only a couple hundred miles on it, the battery has degraded significantly from the passage of time--more so if it was stored at a high state of charge (> 80%).
 
Stoaty said:
NSXTASY said:
thats right im not an official owner yet... but a brand new SV is sitting in my driveway until next Wednesday anyway.
A 2011 LEAF is definitely not "brand new". Even if it has never been sold and has only a couple hundred miles on it, the battery has degraded significantly from the passage of time--more so if it was stored at a high state of charge (> 80%).

oh wow... any way to check the extend of the damage? FWIW I had it charge back to 100% overnight and this morning was 27'F but all 12 bars were lit and the range showed 96 to go in D and 119 in ECO...
 
Update your Profile's Location, and we can better advise you.
Yes, weather and terrain are important factors to consider.

However, I love my Maple LEAF.
So, a premature "Welcome" to the LEAF family. :D
 
NSXTASY said:
oh wow... any way to check the extent of the damage? FWIW I had it charge back to 100% overnight and this morning was 27'F but all 12 bars were lit and the range showed 96 to go in D and 119 in ECO...
All 12 bars lit is a good sign (assuming you are talking about capacity bars, not fuel bars):

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery_Capacity_Loss#Symptoms" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The best way we have currently is to measure Gids at a 100% charge. This is a unit of energy in the battery named after our own Gary Giddings, who designed, built and sells a "Gid Meter" that some of us have. Borrowing one of these meters to check the battery capacity is the best current measure of remaining battery capacity.
 
garygid said:
Update your Profile's Location, and we can better advise you.
Yes, weather and terrain are important factors to consider.

However, I love my Maple LEAF.
So, a premature "Welcome" to the LEAF family. :D
Profile updated ! thank you for the welcome. You guys are a great group... I can already tell!
 
Stoaty said:
NSXTASY said:
oh wow... any way to check the extent of the damage? FWIW I had it charge back to 100% overnight and this morning was 27'F but all 12 bars were lit and the range showed 96 to go in D and 119 in ECO...
All 12 bars lit is a good sign (assuming you are talking about capacity bars, not fuel bars):

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery_Capacity_Loss#Symptoms" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The best way we have currently is to measure Gids at a 100% charge. This is a unit of energy in the battery named after our own Gary Giddings, who designed, built and sells a "Gid Meter" that some of us have. Borrowing one of these meters to check the battery capacity is the best current measure of remaining battery capacity.
yes, both bars show 12 boxes (I didnnt realize this capacity vs fuel until you pointed it out ! thank you !
Where does one get a GID meter ? are they very expensive ? Not sure if there is another SC member in a driving radius from me that would have one I can borrow

BTW, I reset the mile/kwH on both dash and nav and it now shows 4.1 on one and 4.6 on the other ?! :lol:
 
We (2 adults, 2 kids) took the LEAF out for the first time to visit friends living 25 miles away. We left the house with 90 miles ECO showing (11 bars) and when we arrived we had 52 miles left and 7 bars showing. It was night, raining and cold. I had decided to use the LEAF the same way I would have used another vehicle. So heat , defrost, lights, music were on the entire trip. There was no way to charge it while there, so when we got back in, we still had 7 bars and 51 miles to go. We made it home with 3 bars (2 red, 1 normal) left and 14 miles to empty. Highway speed was 65 mph over 20 miles, then 5 miles of backroads and subdivision each way. it was not quite a range anxiety, but a range self consciousness nonetheless... Kinda felt like the days i was back in college driving on fumes constantly and knew I would make it home this time but also wondering when will it be when I wont... Finally I checked how long it would take to charge it back on my 110v home plug and it showed it will take 16 hours. So I guess I wont be taking it tomorrow morning at 7:30 (6 hours to go) when I need to run errants...
 
NSXTASY said:
We made it home with 3 bars (2 red, 1 normal) left and 14 miles to empty.

Congratulations on your new Leaf, just wanted to point out that there are no "Red" fuel bars, the red bars you see are the battery degradation indicator bars, you will reach those in about 12 years driving the Leaf.

Once you spent those remaining 4 fuel bars you would still have about 17% battery capacity left.. it is possible to get 30 miles out of that if you are exceedingly careful, but not likely with a new driver.
 
NSXTASY said:
We made it home with 3 bars (2 red, 1 normal) left and 14 miles to empty.
We don't consider the "red" bars to have any significance and don't report them that way. If you had 3 bars left (which may have been just over 2 bars, you can find out by turning the Leaf off and then on again and it will round down if you have less than 2.5 bars left), you had plenty. Don't pay any attention to the Guess-o-meter (Distance to Empty). Your best bet is to pay attention to the Low Battery Warning (you have 17% left then) and Very Low Battery Warning (8.5% left then). At VLBW, you better be within a very few miles of your destination.
 
NSXTASY said:
So I guess I wont be taking it tomorrow morning at 7:30 (6 hours to go) when I need to run errants...
I would (depending on miles needed, of course). The 16 hour estimate will probably be 14 hours actual. Meaning you would recover half of what you used last night. Or said another way: 14hrs @ 120 is about 14 * 3 miles = 42 miles (conservatively), or as good as 4 miles/hour = 56 miles. In 6:30 you will get back about half that , so around 25 miles. Plus you were not empty. So, unless your errands are very extensive, take the LEAF. It does not have to be full to use ;)
 
I'm going to second what LEAFer said above: you do not need the car to be "full" of charge to use it unless you are planning a long trip that will stretch the range. I rarely charge my car beyond six or seven fuel bars unless I am going to drive it more than 50 miles. It is better for the battery to be left in the middle charge range (two to six fuel bars). If it is more convenient to just charge to 80%, fine. But to not use the car for short trips because it isn't full, makes no sense. If your errands involve a lot of miles, then that is another consideration.

Charging at Level 1 (120 V, 12 A) puts about 1.1 kWh in the battery each hour. At 4 miles/kWh that is about 4.4 miles of range per hour of charging. So, a six hour overnight charge would give you more than 26 miles of additional range in the battery. And that's not even counting that the car was about one third full when you got home from your long trip.

So, just how far did you expect your errands to take you?
 
NSXTASY said:
We (2 adults, 2 kids) took the LEAF out for the first time to visit friends living 25 miles away. We left the house with 90 miles ECO showing (11 bars) and when we arrived we had 52 miles left and 7 bars showing. It was night, raining and cold. I had decided to use the LEAF the same way I would have used another vehicle. So heat , defrost, lights, music were on the entire trip. There was no way to charge it while there, so when we got back in, we still had 7 bars and 51 miles to go. We made it home with 3 bars (2 red, 1 normal) left and 14 miles to empty. Highway speed was 65 mph over 20 miles, then 5 miles of backroads and subdivision each way. it was not quite a range anxiety, but a range self consciousness nonetheless... Kinda felt like the days i was back in college driving on fumes constantly and knew I would make it home this time but also wondering when will it be when I wont... Finally I checked how long it would take to charge it back on my 110v home plug and it showed it will take 16 hours. So I guess I wont be taking it tomorrow morning at 7:30 (6 hours to go) when I need to run errants...

thank you for the encouragement and the advice. You need to understand it would have been our second family drive together and I was not about to take any chance getting the wife range anxiety and her kill the dream before it even started...
For the record we left the LEAF plugged in until 8:30 this morning. I had 52 miles of range again (probably 30-35 real life miles) not enough to do the 50 miles round trip i needed for day. So, the lesson here is that if I pull the trigger on this or any other LEAF I will be looking at a 240V dedicated charge station... no need to take any chance and getting a 240V charger will therefore be an esay sale to the wife... :twisted:
 
This morning I had a pleasant and one unpleasant surprise... the unpleasant one was while I went to get breakfast for everyone, I noticed the inside of the LEAF would fog unless the a/c was on. The car spent the night in the garage (~50F) while outside it was 27F but my other cars dont do this. Then I feel driving in ECO does nothing to keep the car warm inside. This 2011 SL does NOT have heated seats...
the pleasant surprise was my wife actually wanted to take the LEAF to do groceries. After a quick refresher off she went. On her way back she said she likes it ok but not crazy over it. She did say she would not mind driving it instead of her Liberty diesel every day.
I plan to go to tne stealership tomorrow and show them Nissan official numbers where it shows 24 month lease gets a 10% hit on depreciation and 36 month lease is 15-16% hit after initial 24 months. (http://green.autoblog.com/2010/08/30/nissan-releases-leaf-lease-rates-residuals-so-you-can-calculate/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). If they drop the monthly payment to under $200/m with a maximum of $1250 "out the door" (including 1st payment) at sign up, we will lease this 2011 SL. Otherwise fine, we dont have to have it...
 
If they drop the monthly payment to under $200/m with a maximum of $1250 "out the door" (including 1st payment) at sign up, we will lease this 2011 SL. Otherwise fine, we dont have to have it...

If they don't do that I will be shocked, quite frankly I think you should be able to do a lot better on a 2011. Make them an offer under $200/m with 0 down and 0 at closing, just walk if they don't accept it, no harm if they don't take it.....why don't you look at a 2012? Seems like there are deals out there close to what you are thinking about accepting on the 2011.
 
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