Stoaty
Well-known member
I used the heater/defroster for the first time a couple of days ago after 18 months of ownership. A more efficient heater wouldn't be a big draw for me.TomT said:
2013 LEAF Specs, Pricing, Options Released In Japan
- Thread starter Jay
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GRA
Well-known member
Oh, let's bitch about the ludicrous EPA highway test - traffic on a "free-flowing highway" never goes faster than 60 mph, and averages 48? See, we have these new-fangled roads called freeways (and toll expressways), and the free-flowing traffic speeds tend to be a hell of a lot higher than the test. Perhaps these improvements hadn't yet made it to wherever the hell the EPA designed their tests.
Harrumph!
Harrumph!
GetOffYourGas
Well-known member
I find it amusing that all you hot-climate folks are saying that you never use the heater anyway, so it doesn't help. Heat pumps can only handle so much of a heat differential. If it's too cold out, you'll need a resistance heater anyway. Depending on where that line is, it might not do me any good either. If it's 20 degrees outside, I'll be wearing a heavy jacket. Combined with the heated seats, I'll be fine (as long as the windows don't fog up!). I don't really rely on the heater until it's down in the teens or lower, but how efficient is the heat pump at those temperatures anyway?
Of course, all this goes out the window when my kids are in the car. I don't have heated car seats (yet).
Of course, all this goes out the window when my kids are in the car. I don't have heated car seats (yet).
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
GetOffYourGas said:
+1
I lived in Riverside and remember many a morning blasting the heat to get warm and hating my car because it took 5 minutes to do so. I mean it was a bone chilling 60º!!
now, I wear a coat (sometimes heated) and only toggle defrost on enough to clear the windows 80% of the time in Winter even with temps in low 40's. Am I warm? no. will I freeze? no.
TimLee
Well-known member
That is the important question. We won't know until we see the specifications and performance data.GetOffYourGas said:
The home heating inverter driven multi-zone mini-split heat pumps are very efficient down to very low temperatures.
Traditional heat pump systems for homes were efficient only down to around 30F.
But some of the inverter driven multi-zone mini-split heat pumps are very efficient down to 0F or possibly even -10F.
In Southern California the old style heat pump is useful, but as stated, that might not be a huge savings of battery capacity in Southern California.
But in colder, even somewhat moderate climates as Tennessee, efficient heat pump operation down to -10F would make the LEAF heating as efficient as the summer cooling in a large portion of the US. A big difference.
And even in northern climates that may occasionally hit -25F or -30F, would still be a huge improvement.
evnow
Well-known member
Would Leaf do part heat pump & part resistance heating ? Like the house ones do ...
fotajoye
Well-known member
Seems to me that reversing the AC unit and using that same unit as a heat pump, makes sense from a cost and hopefully space saving standpoint. Supposedly a heat pump is more efficient by a factor of 3 or better than a resistance heater.
But,you know what? with a more dense battery, we Leaf owners need not continue to deal with nits and can use the heater at will.
Shortly after I purchased my car, I read that the expected increase in battery density would be about 10 to 15 percent each year. I had the idea that if that was going to be the battery growth rate, that would be directly proportional to the future range of the car and that 70 miles on the first generation battery wasn't that hard to deal with.
It's my understanding from reading the posts here that the cell modules in the 2013 battery are the same as in the 2011 battery; it would seem that if the module part numbers are the same, the 2013 battery is electrically the same. It appears that any range increase in the 2013 JPN model has been found in efficiency mods and a reduction in weight.
We can still hope that Nissan's new U.S. model announcement in January will include a more dense battery.
But,you know what? with a more dense battery, we Leaf owners need not continue to deal with nits and can use the heater at will.
Shortly after I purchased my car, I read that the expected increase in battery density would be about 10 to 15 percent each year. I had the idea that if that was going to be the battery growth rate, that would be directly proportional to the future range of the car and that 70 miles on the first generation battery wasn't that hard to deal with.
It's my understanding from reading the posts here that the cell modules in the 2013 battery are the same as in the 2011 battery; it would seem that if the module part numbers are the same, the 2013 battery is electrically the same. It appears that any range increase in the 2013 JPN model has been found in efficiency mods and a reduction in weight.
We can still hope that Nissan's new U.S. model announcement in January will include a more dense battery.
Stoaty
Well-known member
Nope, it's the same battery capacity as the current Leaf.fotajoye said:
RegGuheert
Well-known member
I seem to recall Carlos Ghosn being quoted as saying 8%/year. But battery technology improves in fits and starts, so you must consider that an average over many years. Is his prediction correct? We'll have to wait a while for the answer to that question!fotajoye said:
Actually, I expect the range to increase at a faster rate than the energy density of the batteries. There are three reasons I expect this:fotajoye said:
1) There are overhead functions such as climate control that take energy from the battery. Assuming these loads stay the same or get smaller in future models, a growing percentage of the battery capacity will be available as the battery capacity increases. Reductions in these loads will improve range without any battery capacity change.
2) Batteries are not the only area of EV technology that will be improved. Other improvements such as weight reduction and improvements in the efficiency of the electric drivetrain will also be realized.
3) Peukert's effect says that as you draw energy from a battery at a lower rate you will be able to draw more energy from the battery. The same thing occurs if you draw the same amount of power but the battery is larger. However, please note Li-ion batteries like the one in the LEAF have a fairly low Peukert's effect since battery resistance is so low. Also, this really only applies to batteries with the same chemistry and I expect the biggest gains to come from changing battery chemistry. Still, this concept should apply if you have a choice of different battery sizes within a given model year.
I think reasons 1) and 2) apply to the MY2013 LEAF in which there are supposedly no improvements in battery capacity yet there should be an improvement in range.
cwerdna
Well-known member
^^^
Awesome!
I see Kadota-san in a few of the shots.
Awesome!
I see Kadota-san in a few of the shots.
linkim
Well-known member
cwerdna said:
Yea, Kadota-an was at the Oppama assembly plant on Dec. 7 to greet us and escort us through the plant. He also attended the LEAF owners event at Grandrive (Oppama site) on Dec. 8, along with Watanabe-san (Corp. VP) and Abe-san (Japanese equivalent of retired Mark Perry of NNA). There was a Q & A session during the event and all three executives were there. Unfortunately, I couldn't follow the discussion which was in Japanese.
fotajoye
Well-known member
Now you're talking; but, I want to drive the Nismo, not ride in it.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
evnow said:
the reason the heater is not used in EVs is because it would be a range penalty unique to EVs. if one wanted to make it fair, then ICEs should be tested when engine is cold. that way, the "warmup" penalty can be part of the equation.
evnow
Well-known member
DaveinOlyWA said:
May be they can "warmup" the heater and then test the range (basically how much it costs to maintain the heat).
But as I said the basic reason in ICE they don't need to test the heat is that it is free.
OrientExpress
Well-known member
We had quite a time and are still catching up. On think that I do have to share are some possible spy shots of what the 2014 LEAF may look like. We also go to look up close at the S trim level LEAF, and I was quite impressed. I think Nissan will sell quite a few of those, especially if they meet the MSRP that I am hearing being kicked around.
One thing that I saw that was interesting on the assembly line was that both the Mark 1 and Mark 2 LEAFs were being manufactured right next to each other. When I asked about that, the answer was that the Mk1 is still being built for some markets for a while longer.
I have a bunch of close ups of the Mk2 battery which is essentially a cost reduced and lightened version of the Mk1. I hope to get those posted soon.
If you want to learn more about our exploits in Japan, visit The News Section of the SF BayLEAFs site
Our main reason for being there was to represent the US at the 2nd anniversary of the Nissan Japan LEAF Owners Club Celebration. In the end they had a parade of 175+ cars around the test track.
One thing that I saw that was interesting on the assembly line was that both the Mark 1 and Mark 2 LEAFs were being manufactured right next to each other. When I asked about that, the answer was that the Mk1 is still being built for some markets for a while longer.
I have a bunch of close ups of the Mk2 battery which is essentially a cost reduced and lightened version of the Mk1. I hope to get those posted soon.
If you want to learn more about our exploits in Japan, visit The News Section of the SF BayLEAFs site
Our main reason for being there was to represent the US at the 2nd anniversary of the Nissan Japan LEAF Owners Club Celebration. In the end they had a parade of 175+ cars around the test track.
edatoakrun
Well-known member
drees said:
Could be for markets slated to get the slightly (?) different US built 2013s, in the near future.
It might not make sense to sell the 2013 "Mk2 J" for just a few months, before introducing the 2013 "Mk2 A".
Boomer23
Well-known member
OrientExpress said:
Spy shots, spy shots? Yes, please, and soon, please.
TomT
Well-known member
Weight reduction would certainly help but at this point, as of the 2013 MY, I don't believe that there is much left to wring out in efficiency... It's already dam close to the theoretical maximum...
RegGuheert said: