Randy
Well-known member
mwalsh said:
I spoke to Angus today and he said it is programmed at $15 per hour (and will be prorated - $7.50 for 30 minutes, for example)...
San Diego - Current List of Public Charging Stations
- Thread starter Randy
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Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
I spoke to Angus today and he said it is programmed at $15 per hour (and will be prorated - $7.50 for 30 minutes, for example)...
KJD said:
Ah, yes, but can you get there in 30 minutes on a 25kW setup? That was one of the questions in my mind when I saw what was being installed. I simply havent taken the time to do the math yet. From my finger math though, I'm thinking it would be close, if it could.
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
mwalsh said:
If you're above about 50% SOC, the charging time is likely the same as a 50kW charger. Where additional charging time will be added is if the battery is closer to empty. By how many minutes, I could only guess. I doubt most people would know the difference, like they don't with 208v L2 versus 240v.
Randy
Well-known member
TonyWilliams said:
Tony, here's an observation I've made...We have ChargePoint 208v L2 units at work, and the green digital readout says I'm drawing 3.65 kW when I'm charging... If the current was fixed at 16 amps (at 208v), that only would be 3.3kW from the charging station. So I've always thought that the LEAF battery charger will vary the current a bit as the voltage drops to maintain the max charge rate (within reason)...Anyone else seen this?
Randy
Well-known member
DC Fast Charging pricing has nothing to do with residential electrical rates. They're apples and oranges...It's meant for trip extension and faster convenient public charging, and it costs serious money to install and operate a DC Fast charger. They probably would not even be on a track to break even by charging $15 per hour, much less make a decent profit...And ChargePoint gets a cut of the revenue as well...
I would have to agree with Randy on this one, $15 per hour is very reasonable when you consider how much one of these cost to install. Not many people are going to stay plugged in for an hour anyhow. Monthly costs can also be very high depending on the utility in question.Randy said:
Most people will charge long enough to get home safely where they can charge overnight at low cost.
Here in Utah my LEAF has never seen a Quick Charger and most likely never will. I really wish I had that option even at 15 dollars per hour.
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
Randy said:
I know Phil has written about this. If I recall, it can pull 18 amps at voltages below the USA 240v / 16 amp norm.
200 volts (Japan) or 208 (USA) * 18 = 3700 watts
Here is my math, assuming a brand-new battery that holds 281 Gids @ 100% charge:mwalsh said:
60 min/25 kW = one kWh charged every 2.4 minutes.
LBW=49 Gids, 80% charge = 231 Gids.
Energy to store = 231-49 = 182 Gids.
182 Gids*.08 kWh/Gid = 14.6 kWh to be charged.
First, assume no power taper (constant 25 kW) to get lower bound on charge time:
time to charge = 14.6*2.4 = 35 minutes, so no, you can't quite get there in 30 minutes.
The graph below shows a typical charge profile for a full-power 50 kW DC QC. Each square on the graph represents 6 kW * 2 min = 12 kW-min. In the case shown the charge is starting well above LBW, but I am only interested in the taper as the charge approaches 80%.
A second assumption is that the power taper for the Fuji will begin at the same SOC where the curve crosses below the 25 kW line. Manual integration off the graph from this point to the shutoff at 80% charge yields 2.83 kWh in the last 10 min for the taper portion.
With the above correction the total time for the Fuji is:
(14.6-2.8)*2.4 + 10 = 38 min.
A third assumption might be that since the Fuji is charging slower, the battery will heat up less, and the taper might begin at a somewhat higher SOC. If so, 38 min might be just a little high, so 38 minutes should be a reasonable upper bound.
Starting from LBW, the Fuji is somewhat at a relative disadvantage compared to a full-power charger, but in my opinion the less heat applied to the battery is worth the extra time. If you start with more charge, say 30%, the time penalty will be less because the full-power charger will start tapering sooner.
walterbays
Well-known member
We drove up to Doheny State Beach today and stopped at EVoasis. We pulled in with 4 charge bars, 31/34 on the GOM, and 6 battery temp bars. The charger activated easily with my Chargepoint card and the Fuji connector was simple to attach and detach.TonyWilliams said:
The charger said I started with 38% charge and I selected to charge to 85%, for which it estimated 59 minutes which is slower than I expected, but in fact we got sufficient charge in 25 minutes. They have a comfortable lobby with TV, free Wifi, and refreshments (photos to come in the EVoasis thread). But forget about walking to Costco for a shopping trip! I didn't even have time to finish my Pepsi before it was time to go.
I checked the Fuji display a few times:
38% start, 59 min remaining to 85%
43% 384V 59A 56 min remaining to 85%
71% 395V 50A 41 min remaining to 85%
78% 395V 41A 37 min remaining to 85%
I had enough charge and it was clearly ramping down the charge rate, so I stopped it there. Car showed 8 charge bars, still 6 battery temp bars, and 69 GOM. Chargepoint reported I had used 8.522 kWh in 24:54, which should have cost me $6.23. If I instead figure getting 40% charge of 21 kWh usable capacity that's 8.4 kWh. I don't know which is correct or if that's just the difference from charger inefficiency. Oddly both the Fuji unit and Chargepoint web show the cost as $0, so either EVoasis is celebrating the opening by giving free charging, or there was an error and I owe Angus.
Kudos to EVOasis for charging by the minute. Not only does this make it less expensive for (I think) typical usage, but given the CHAdeMO ramp down people will see the diminishing returns on their dollar and will not be so likely to hog the charger when they don't need it, as they would if there were a flat fee for charging.
As for cost, I averaged 4.6 mi/kWh for this trip. My overnight charging at home costs $0.095/kWh accounting for L2 charger inefficiency, so miles driven on home electricity cost 2.1 cents. If I had paid $6.23 for 8.4 kWh that's $0.74/kWh or 16.1 cents per mile, almost 8 times as expensive as home. But the total trip would have cost $7.81 whereas if we had Just-Driven-the-ICE it would have cost $15.27. Without EVOasis driving the ICE would have been our only reasonable alternative.
Oh, and that Pepsi I drank cost me $3 for 250ml, whereas at home it costs only $1.89 for 2000ml, over 12 times as expensive. Sure did taste good right then and right there though.
davewill
Well-known member
$15/hr sounds about right, all things considered. Under $10 for a typical charge, and people will be motivated to get their car unplugged as soon as they're done, instead of shlepping around Costco for an extra hour. Are there L2s as well or just the DCFC?
walterbays
Well-known member
I agree. If people understand as they see the Volts and Amps displayed what a good deal they're getting when they first plug in, and what a bad deal towards the end, they should not overstay their welcome and the charger should remain pretty much available for all.davewill said:
Unfortunately there are no L2s on site. There are L2's across the street at Weseloh Nissan - very nice people there. Heading north from EVoasis there are quite a few L2 stations where you can top off and have lunch, including a number of Walgreens (Chargepoint, $2/hr). Heading south there is nothing until you get to Oceanside and the only road through Camp Pendleton is I-5, so you'd better have enough kWh from EVoasis to make it there at highway speed.
Another approach would be to bill per kWh dispensed (max 25 kW rate), which is simpler than putting the driver through the mental gymnastics of value during the ramp-down.walterbays said:
It's free now, but it's also brand new, and the provisioning is still being adjusted. Like every other ChargePoint station you can always see its availability (real time) and fee structure on the map. If availability becomes a problem, request they enable reservations, so you know it will waiting for you when you arrive.
KMG365
Well-known member
Santa Ysabel DC Fast Charger is HOT!!!!
Been there, charged on that.
Been there, charged on that.
wsbca
Well-known member
KMG365 said:Santa Ysabel DC Fast Charger is HOT!!!!
Been there, charged on that.
How much does it cost?
Speaking of which- has anybody received a Blink card lately? We signed up and ordered one, some time ago - coming up on a couple of months - and have yet to receive the card, though online it shows that the card was requested. This is for a new account, distinct from our EV Project/home charger Blink account due to the RPA kerfuffle - they took the CC number for the new account but nothing has happened. No response to an online inquiry a few weeks ago.
davewill
Well-known member
Just call them up and have them transfer the membership to your current account. Then your current card will just work. I did that, telling them about the RPA concerns, and they were happy to do it.wsbca said:
DaveK
Active member
wsbca said:KMG365 said:Santa Ysabel DC Fast Charger is HOT!!!!
Been there, charged on that.
Speaking of which- has anybody received a Blink card lately?
I requested one about a week and a half ago and just received it yesterday in the mail.
ybitz
Well-known member
How much does the Santa Ysabel DC Fast Charger cost?
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