Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

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TonyWilliams said:
The 2012 Toyota Rav4 EV:

803AA93D-ED6C-4DFD-8345-5A2F0C3B7F4C-9180-0000055D3E8112C0.jpg




The Tesla 10kW charger on the Rav4:

A58F1B9D-7CC3-429E-9DF1-C051C4C5B08C-6335-000003D7F2B4B45B.jpg




Some box in the left rear corner of the Rav4:

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This morning's drive after a "range mode" charge (100% in LEAF speak):

4ABB5C06-57EB-4135-BC97-384AE0DCB58B-9180-00000581855E0CE7.jpg




This morning, after the 35 minute drive:

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After I turned the car off:

7152DE46-88E0-4764-B55A-A0923C3B0432-9180-000005815778461F.jpg





AC283FF8-22D9-4D7A-A432-D4103C5503DB-9180-0000058154E9E31C.jpg




EFA7B3AE-9312-4C79-83F0-4B1F2491E5CB-9180-0000058165AA8D6B.jpg

can't wait for your full range report, etc. 65MPH highway test, etc.
 
gsleaf said:
Any idea how efficient the heating is for those? Do they have heated seats like the Leaf?
Seat heaters are included.
I really enjoyed the RAV4 EV I drove for a weekend. If it were available when I bought my LEAF I would have gone RAV4. It's a much more solid vehicle. Although it's a conversion, Tesla's power train fits so well into the chassis, it seemed purpose built to me.
The range was a solid 100 mi on the freeway. I can easily see getting 150 miles in a pinch. Sport mode is right on the edge of what seems safe with such a suspension; it really moves.
It's heavy and not as aero and measured about 20% less efficient. On a route I know well, my LEAF delivered 3.9 mi.kWh compared to about 3.1 on the RAV4.
Looking forward to TonyWilliam's write-up.
 
TonyWilliams,
I think you drove the same one that I did a month ago. If these don't move, maybe they will bargain in price.

I might be in if I can get it for around $5K discount.

Nice ride though,
Tom
 
sparky said:
gsleaf said:
Any idea how efficient the heating is for those? Do they have heated seats like the Leaf?
Seat heaters are included.
I really enjoyed the RAV4 EV I drove for a weekend. If it were available when I bought my LEAF I would have gone RAV4. It's a much more solid vehicle. Although it's a conversion, Tesla's power train fits so well into the chassis, it seemed purpose built to me.
The range was a solid 100 mi on the freeway. I can easily see getting 150 miles in a pinch. Sport mode is right on the edge of what seems safe with such a suspension; it really moves.
It's heavy and not as aero and measured about 20% less efficient. On a route I know well, my LEAF delivered 3.9 mi.kWh compared to about 3.1 on the RAV4.
Looking forward to TonyWilliam's write-up.

The power in sport mode is almost nutty. I had the left front suspension in full wheel hop while spinning the crap out of the tires (and torque steering that gives you a quick 20 degree change in heading :ugeek: ).

I have driven about 90 miles, and the GoM is ROCK SOLID!!! Never hunting around for the distance. Thank you Tesla for schooling the "guys with 17 years of EV experience". Currently, after a "range" (Tesla speak) or "extended" (Toyota speak) charge (our 100%), I have about 1/3 energy still remaining on the gas gauge. I think I can drive this thing 120 miles EASY. I really, really like not coming up short every day, and planning trips around pathetic 16 amp charges in LEAF. With Rav4, it's 6.6/7.2kW at virtually every public L2, and 10kW (40/42amps) at RV parks with OpenEVSE portable and a simple NEMA 14-50P.

Tidbits- won't hold speed in cruise control in B mode (similar to ECO, without screwing with the accelerator pedal sensitivity... Regen increase only). The normal regen is weak, and B is similar to ECO mode. The good news; no herky-jerky regen like BMW (although I'd like a B2 and B3 with increasingly more regen).

When walking ul to the car, it will automatically unlock the door. Pushing the door button then relics the car. Very frustrating coming from Nissan / Infiniti cars.

The is not automatic transmission "creep", nor do I see a way to select creep (like Tesla).

There is an irritating loud beeping inside the car when the gear selelctor is in reverse. I would find that noise maker and disable on day one. There are no outside noise makers (VSP on LEAF) or backup chimes / beeps.

No guidelines on reverse camera. Nissan did a great job on this.

I like charger time scheduling, I think. I put in the timer, and it started charging as soon as I plugged it in. I have no idea what I did wrong.

Passing power is way better at highway speeds. It doesn't "hit the wall" at 45mph while accelerating. Steering is not as twitchy, with less power steering boost. It feels solid. I don't like the steering wheel feel, compared to 2012 LEAF with "natural" bumps at 10 and 2 o'clock for your hands, but way better than 2011 LEAF plastic steering wheel. I don't think it is heated, however.

No charging stations in the Navigation. I don't think this is bad, because I carry an iPad with far more up to date info. But, it is an oversight.

More car wind noise, including tires. Not bad, just more. Tires look like "real" Yokohama tires, not cheap recycled Ecopia's.

No volume control knob (aka Tesla "feature"). I don't like it. Headlights are good, but still incandescent bulbs for high beam.

Idiotic refueling port at the existing gasoline port. I enjoyed trying to walk around the car with the handle sticking out the side. Brought to you with the "Frankenplug" mentality (they wanted it to fit where gasoline goes... apparently that's a benefit for EVs). There are two little lights in the window above the charger port. I don't know exactly what they indicate, but presumably something similar to our three dash blue lights.

Tailgate opens from left to right. You have to stand in traffic to open when parked on side of road. Great for Japan and England with right hand drive.

Preliminary data:

75mph - 2.8 m/kWh
70mph - 3.1
65mph - 3.3
60mph - 3.6

Über secret rolling hill test results : 78mph peak vice 81mph for LEAF. Unfortunately, we're not making a completely valid test, since the Rav4 weighs more, but it is surprisingly close. With a 1 foot square box on top of LEAF, it went 73mph. Toyota says 0.30 Cd, and Nissan says 0.29 Cd for LEAF (but with much smaller flat plate area).

Did I mention this thing hauls butt? I can't even imagine what a $7000 more expensive car with the same motor at "normal" power will do (154 hp (115 kW) max, peak torque in Sport Mode: 273 lb.-ft., peak torque in Normal Mode: 218 lb.-ft. vs 300hp+). Range will be greater in Model S with the same 40kWh battery pack and 0.24 Cd.
 
TonyWilliams said:
The power in sport mode is almost nutty. I had the left front suspension in full wheel hop while spin the crap out of the tires (and torque steering that gives you a quick 20 degree change in heading :ugeek: ).
...
Tidbits- won't hold speed in cruise control in B mode (similar to ECO, without screwing with the accelerator pedal sensitivity... Regen increase only).
...

Idiotic refueling port at the existing gasoline port.
...
Tailgate opens from left to right. You have to stand in traffic to open when parked on side of road. Great for Japan and England with right hand drive.
Hahha. Yeah, it was VERY easy to chirp the tires when I tried it at Alt Car Expo. :) Hehe about the torque steer. If they had only made it RWD or AWD.

As for cruise control not working in B mode, that's the way it is on the Prius, so that's no surprise. (On Prius, one shouldn't drive in B mode 99% of the time anyway.)

I'm not surprised about the refueling port location. I don't think Toyota wanted to have to make too many changes.

As for the dumb tailgate, my dad's (ICE) 02 Rav 4 is like that too. For whatever reason, Toyota didn't want to mirror it so that it makes sense for those who drive on the right side of the road.
Statik said:
http://insideevs.com/toyota-rav4-ev-103-miles-of-range-76-mpge-on-sale-september-24th-599-lease-offer/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(Also added a newly minted video from Toyota at the end of the artile on the RAV EV4 and "Smart Energy Management", stuff about efficient systems, regen, etc...kinda interesting)
Re: videos, I count 5 of them at http://www.toyota.com/esq/vehicles/electric-vehicle/rav4ev-story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (4 at the bottom).

One the of the Priuschat moderators put up a video at http://priuschat.com/threads/rav4ev.113066/#post-1639814" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. The Prius Experts (mostly moderators) were invited to Toyota to drive it.
 
TonyWilliams said:
There are two little lights in the window above the charger port. I don't know exactly what they indicate, but presumably something similar to our three dash blue lights.
Yeah, similar to LEAF. When the left is only blinking, the car is charging and under 50%. When the left is solid & right is blinking, it's charging and over 50%. Both solid is Charge Complete.
 
TonyWilliams said:
Idiotic refueling port at the existing gasoline port. I enjoyed trying to walk around the car with the handle sticking out the side. Brought to you with the "Frankenplug" mentality (they wanted it to fit where gasoline goes... apparently that's a benefit for EVs).
Yes, dumb is the key word here. It's been one of my top complaints about the ActiveE as well. But alas, one will resign to this design travesty eventually.
1
 
The production Toyota Plug-In Prius is dreadful as well. Left rear, Petrol. Right rear, J1772. At least Ford and Honda are sticking with the driver's side front, like GM.
 
grommet said:
The production Toyota Plug-In Prius is dreadful as well. Left rear, Petrol. Right rear, J1772. At least Ford and Honda are sticking with the driver's side front, like GM.
Yeah, it was moved from the front fender of the car on the PHV Prius demo vehicles to the back in the production PiP. I can't find the original thread where http://priuschat.com/threads/why-is-the-charging-port-in-back.100283/#post-1421056" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is mentioned, but a Toyota official (I have met her, she's the real deal) chimed in at http://priuschat.com/threads/why-is-the-charging-port-in-back.100283/page-3#post-1427022" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
 
surfingslovak said:
TonyWilliams said:
Idiotic refueling port at the existing gasoline port. I enjoyed trying to walk around the car with the handle sticking out the side. Brought to you with the "Frankenplug" mentality (they wanted it to fit where gasoline goes... apparently that's a benefit for EVs).
Yes, dumb is the key word here. It's been one of my top complaints about the ActiveE as well. But alas, one will resign to this design travesty eventually.
1

I seriously think I would just move it to the nose. I could have two ports.


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Nice review, Tony. Given the amount of time it took Toyota/Tesla to whip this thing together, imagine what they could do with a normal product development cycle.

I wish they'd stick the drivetrain in the Camry or something - though I imagine it's easier to squeeze the batteries into the RAV4 without compromising road clearance.

How much did Mossy Toyota charge you for the rental?
 
TonyWilliams said:
I seriously think I would just move it to the nose. I could have two ports.
In that case, I think you might want to watch this. Good looking car otherwise!


Click to open

drees said:
wish they'd stick the drivetrain in the Camry or something - though I imagine it's easier to squeeze the batteries into the RAV4 without compromising road clearance.
If my source is correct, it was Tesla's suggestion to go with a RAV4 chassis for this EV, and they evaluated all cars/platforms in Toyota's portfolio.
 
TonyWilliams said:
Preliminary data:

75mph - 2.8 m/kWh
70mph - 3.1
65mph - 3.3
60mph - 3.6

Über secret rolling hill test results : 78mph peak vice 81mph for LEAF. Unfortunately, we're not making a completely valid test, since the Rav4 weighs more, but it is surprisingly close. With a 1 foot square box on top of LEAF, it went 73mph. Toyota says 0.30 Cd, and Nissan says 0.29 Cd for LEAF (but with much smaller flat plate area).

Range will be greater in Model S with the same 40kWh battery pack and 0.24 Cd.
In LEAF I am now getting 5.0-5.2 m/kWh quite often on freeway RT doing 54-58 mph.

3.6 m/kWh with charging at 6.6 kW L2 = 24 miles per hour of charge - about 50% better than 2011/2012 LEAF.
If your L2 is actually delivering 208V (quite common, I believe), charge rate would be a little lower.

With RAV4 EV I would hope to get at least 4.0 m/kWh, but it sounds like I might have to drive less than 54 mph to achieve this. As you say, higher frontal area is main problem on level ground. For hill climbing one would also have to derate more for heavier weight.

What is the usable battery capacity in kWh in both Normal and Sport mode ?
 
I picked up the RAV4 early this morning from Roseville Toyota. It's a blast! :)

I put it in B and sport mode for the drive back to work. Amazing. Broke traction numerous times, up to what seemed 30mph. The roads were a bit slick, but still... this thing has a LOT of torque. Tony's right, it's downright nutty. You can get yourself in to trouble pretty easily. Push sport button, win ticket. ;)

The regen in B mode seems stronger than the leaf, but not substantially so. The application is different, with an initial strong negative torque as you lift off the throttle but you still need to use the brakes to come to a complete stop. Will do some power hill climbing (and regen-ing) tomorrow.
x25tGl.jpg

I tested the hauling capability by moving a couch. The timing was perfect, as I had recently gotten a good deal on one from a coworker. It luckily splits in two sections, and the back seats in the RAV4 go down flat. Seemed similar to the cargo capabilities of my old 2002 Honda CR-V.

More to follow. Haven't even fiddled much with the nav.

Oh and my efficiency for the last few trips was 2.8 mi/kWh. :shock: :?
 
JeremyW said:
Oh and my efficiency for the last few trips was 2.8 mi/kWh. :shock: :?
Not to worry! The dash in my ActiveE proudly displays 3.0 miles per kWh. It just takes some getting used to :lol:
 
Ok, here it is. 100% "extended" (range charge in Tesla-speak) with 130.1 miles driven. This is "Very Low Battery", and still shows one segment of the 16 Fuel Bar segments. It probably still had a few miles left in it:

05E1CB20-E26B-452E-9856-B254CFF88E48-10811-00000677482C836E.jpg



8B9F4224-6A67-459F-90C2-634837E9F72A-10811-0000067744507FD7.jpg



The 240 volt estimate is at 10kW (40 amps). Only the Tesla Roadster chargers in public can do this (Clipper Creek CS100). So, for lowly 6.6kW (30 amps), add a few hours:

A9B59B88-DB9F-4615-9A7E-9D25DAD89090-10811-000006773E32410E.jpg
 
Very cool that you've handily beat the EPA rated range, including some freeway driving.
TonyWilliams said:
When walking ul to the car, it will automatically unlock the door. Pushing the door button then relics the car. Very frustrating coming from Nissan / Infiniti cars.
You sure about that? Typical Toyota Smart Key System behavior is that the interior lights turn on as you approach it w/the smart key. Only when you touch the rear of the door handles do the doors unlock, confirmed by a two beeps. Pushing the black button locks the doors and that is its ONLY action. On newer Toyotas w/SKS (like the '10+ Prius), the black button has been replaced by two ridges that you can push on/squeeze on.

On Nissans w/smart key (Intelligent Key in Nissan parlance), the black button serves both lock and unlock functions. I dislike that.
 
abasile said:
Very cool, Tony! Did that 130 miles include your trip to Julian? How fast were you driving?

Yep. 4000 feet up and down, plus some time at 85mph on the freeway (it has to be in "sport" mode to hit over 100mph, which I forgot at the time).

I just drove "normal" the rest of the time, with the A/C on "ECO Hi". Here's a picture of the economy going up to Julian (left column) and coming back:



6F53A825-884F-4789-AFEC-98C53EC158E2-10811-000006774CA4C80E.jpg
 
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