Caracalover
Posts: 560
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 0567
Location: Tujunga
Contact: Website

Lost a bar, gained some security?

Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:01 pm

I take my Leaf over a mountain every Sunday, about a 3000 foot elevation change, and go 65 miles into the high desert.

For more than a year in all weather I have done this, and although the software has changed, one thing has remained consistent. I get to low battery warning as I arrive at the destination.

Last Sunday I got in the Leaf and noticed one of the capacity bars had vanished. Figured no big deal since I had made the trip last week, it would make it this week too. Strange thing is, it did it with no LBW, althugh it did go to one bar after a quick trip into the supermarket on the way.

On the way home the power available bars remained lit longer. I typically am down to two bars lately (Down to one once) when I crest the mountain coming home, and for the first time since the software upgrade I had three at the crest, and the GOM was showing double digit range (12), where it typically reads single digit (5 when I had one bar, no LBW).

I don't obsess about the battery, range, or GOM. I also don't look at the M/KWH like many here do. I drive according to time, and for this trip I allow an hour and forty five minutes. I am always a bit frugal with my energy use on these trips, as my wife is with me and she is helpful at keeping my energy use in check. I arrived on time at both ends of this Sunday drive, and with a little less concern than I had the week before, although one little light went off on the "capacity" gauge.

I am thinking that gauge may be as wonky as the GOM.

The LBW may have moved lower is another possibility, but the drive home this Sunday seemed even faster than the drive home last week - I know I drove faster up the mountain than usual, since the energy bars were higher when I exited the freeway. BTW 30 miles of this trip is freeway, which I travel around 60MPH, depending on traffic (I speed up to not slow the flow) and the time I have available to get to where I am going.

I haven't read the entire thread "Lost a bar, down to 11" so forgive me if others have already noted this phenomenom.
26,000 miles on Silver Leaf
wildcatzoo.org drive there on Sunday across a big mountain, sorry no public charging at this time.
Looking for grants to put in solar port so perhaps in the future...

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mwalsh
Posts: 9633
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0213
Location: Garden Grove, CA

Re: Lost a bar, gained some security?

Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:14 pm

A couple of days ago I found myself wondering if anyone with "original bars" in their car has lost a capacity bar. Admittedly there can't be many of us left now, but I was thinking that just maybe this phenomeon has only happened to cars with the adjusted capacity bars software update.

Not that I'm saying here that there may not be other causes.
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 81,000 miles
2015 pack on 12/30/15
Tinted windows
Bridgestone Ecopia 422+ tires
L1 EVSE upgrade
FIAMM horns
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surfingslovak
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Re: Lost a bar, gained some security?

Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:25 pm

mwalsh wrote:A couple of days ago I found myself wondering if anyone with "original bars" in their car has lost a capacity bar. Admittedly there can't be many of us left now, but I was thinking that just maybe this phenomeon has only happened to cars with the adjusted capacity bars software update.

Not that I'm saying here that there may not be other causes.

I would know of two people with original bars that have lost capacity bars. One of them is turbo2ltr. I moved Caracalover to the appropriate capacity loss section in the Wiki.

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mwalsh
Posts: 9633
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0213
Location: Garden Grove, CA

Re: Lost a bar, gained some security?

Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:29 pm

surfingslovak wrote:
I would know of two people with original bars that have lost capacity bars. One of them is turbo2ltr. I moved Caracalover to the appropriate capacity loss section in the Wiki.


Oh, well. Never mind then.
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 81,000 miles
2015 pack on 12/30/15
Tinted windows
Bridgestone Ecopia 422+ tires
L1 EVSE upgrade
FIAMM horns
Superbright LED lighting
2013 sun visors
LED shifter
Heated seats
GT-R map lamp lenses
Altima illuminated door switches

Caracalover
Posts: 560
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 0567
Location: Tujunga
Contact: Website

Re: Lost a bar, gained some security?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:27 am

surfingslovak wrote:
mwalsh wrote:A couple of days ago I found myself wondering if anyone with "original bars" in their car has lost a capacity bar. Admittedly there can't be many of us left now, but I was thinking that just maybe this phenomeon has only happened to cars with the adjusted capacity bars software update.

Not that I'm saying here that there may not be other causes.

I would know of two people with original bars that have lost capacity bars. One of them is turbo2ltr. I moved Caracalover to the appropriate capacity loss section in the Wiki.

I have almost 22,000 miles on my Leaf, please alter the Wiki page to reflect that.
26,000 miles on Silver Leaf
wildcatzoo.org drive there on Sunday across a big mountain, sorry no public charging at this time.
Looking for grants to put in solar port so perhaps in the future...

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RegGuheert
Posts: 6419
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Lost a bar, gained some security?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:51 am

Caracalover wrote:I take my Leaf over a mountain every Sunday, about a 3000 foot elevation change, and go 65 miles into the high desert.

For more than a year in all weather I have done this, and although the software has changed, one thing has remained consistent. I get to low battery warning as I arrive at the destination.

Last Sunday I got in the Leaf and noticed one of the capacity bars had vanished. Figured no big deal since I had made the trip last week, it would make it this week too. Strange thing is, it did it with no LBW, althugh it did go to one bar after a quick trip into the supermarket on the way.

On the way home the power available bars remained lit longer. I typically am down to two bars lately (Down to one once) when I crest the mountain coming home, and for the first time since the software upgrade I had three at the crest, and the GOM was showing double digit range (12), where it typically reads single digit (5 when I had one bar, no LBW).
Thanks for sharing your experience! That is very encouraging!

We don't have a weekly excursion like you do, but I did make a drive to a relative's house 76 miles from here a little while back and arrived just after LBW. The trip home did not quite get us to LBW. We make this trip a few times a year and I was wondering how many years it might be possible in the LEAF. Your experience gives me hope that it might be possible for a while!
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Lost a bar, gained some security?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:37 am

Caracalover wrote:I take my Leaf over a mountain every Sunday, about a 3000 foot elevation change, and go 65 miles into the high desert.

For more than a year in all weather I have done this, and although the software has changed, one thing has remained consistent. I get to low battery warning as I arrive at the destination.

Last Sunday I got in the Leaf and noticed one of the capacity bars had vanished. Figured no big deal since I had made the trip last week, it would make it this week too. Strange thing is, it did it with no LBW, althugh it did go to one bar after a quick trip into the supermarket on the way.

On the way home the power available bars remained lit longer. I typically am down to two bars lately (Down to one once) when I crest the mountain coming home, and for the first time since the software upgrade I had three at the crest, and the GOM was showing double digit range (12), where it typically reads single digit (5 when I had one bar, no LBW).

I don't obsess about the battery, range, or GOM. I also don't look at the M/KWH like many here do. I drive according to time, and for this trip I allow an hour and forty five minutes. I am always a bit frugal with my energy use on these trips, as my wife is with me and she is helpful at keeping my energy use in check. I arrived on time at both ends of this Sunday drive, and with a little less concern than I had the week before, although one little light went off on the "capacity" gauge.

I am thinking that gauge may be as wonky as the GOM...


It's quite clear that whatever the loss of a capacity bar shows, it is not an accurate indicator of battery capacity.

I Began to get 9 bars of charge from my "80%" time charges this summer, and thought I might soon lose a capacity bar, but I have since returned to 10 bars of charge. From others' observations, I now believe that I probably won't lose that 12th capacity bar till sometime next Spring or Summer. Maybe by then, we will know what it means, if Nissan doesn't find a way to make it a more accurate gauge of battery capacity before then.

Results from my actual range tests, taking into account other information reported on battery capacity, (very roughly) indicate I have probably lost Between ~5 and ~11 percent of total capacity from "new", most likely in the middle of that range, and with most of that loss having occurred in my first 6 months after my car was built, (over the Summer 2011) before I made my first range/capacity test.

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=9064&start=30

Over 16 months since delivery (~18 months since manufacture) and over 13,000 miles, with "Summer" ambient temperature conditions probably somewhat higher than than average for the US LEAF fleet, my LEAF went 107.1 miles between "100% and ~ VLBW, by "semi-hypermiling" on this (relatively low speed, relatively high ascent/and descent, ~6000 ft each) route last night, despite less-than-ideal traffic and temperature conditions.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=7022&start=460http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=7022&start=460

I also believe that with my current capacity loss, I could also still match, or come very close to, all the range projections Nissan made for my LEAF, before I leased, and later bought, my car.
no condition is permanent

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johnr
Posts: 884
Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 2:08 pm
Delivery Date: 11 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2151
Location: Exeter, CA

Re: Lost a bar, gained some security?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:32 pm

mwalsh wrote:A couple of days ago I found myself wondering if anyone with "original bars" in their car has lost a capacity bar. Admittedly there can't be many of us left now, but I was thinking that just maybe this phenomeon has only happened to cars with the adjusted capacity bars software update.

Not that I'm saying here that there may not be other causes.


I lost one capacity bar just a couple weeks before I went in to the dealer for the update. So you can add me to the list of those who have lost an "original bar". The car was at about 12,000 miles I think and it was about one year in.
My trip to Mineral King and the value of regen

Charging stations, electrical adapters, and portable CHAdeMO quick chargers

2011 upgrade: Fossil < Leaf. 2014 upgrade: Leaf < imiev. 2017 upgrade: imiev < tesla. Done upgrading.

Stoaty
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:50 pm
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Leaf Number: 3871
Location: West Los Angeles

Re: Lost a bar, gained some security?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:50 pm

johnr wrote:I lost one capacity bar just a couple weeks before I went in to the dealer for the update. So you can add me to the list of those who have lost an "original bar". The car was at about 12,000 miles I think and it was about one year in.

Added to Wiki, but we are still missing quite a bit of info:

Date of loss
Month/Year of manufacture
Last 5 digits of VIN
Date of report to Nissan
Case number assigned by Nissan

Thanks.
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thankyouOB
Posts: 3583
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Location: Coastal LA

Re: Lost a bar, gained some security?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:36 pm

food for thought.
it seems there is more to this battery chemistry than some had thought. and there appears to be a high variability and multiple factors at play.
17 months and 17k miles in, i am making the same commute with the same residuals on the GOM and the battery bars.
the only changed factor is that i see 6 tbs more often.
may reserve/delivery 4/30/11
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