Wholesale value of the 2011 Leaf @Auction March 2018

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It's covered by the CA emissions warranty ...

(I suspect the salesperson will not object to his contact info being here, as long as you call him to buy the car):


" Yes, it was originally titled in CA and has a emission-battery warrenty! I have appointment for the Leaf in the morning, is there any way you can come in tonight?



Barret Horiuchi

Fleet/Internet/Client Manager

Keyes Chevy



818-515-9021 (Call or Text)"
 
jspearman said:
EdmondLeaf said:
below 20K$ retail
http://www.keyeschevy.com/vehicle/2011-Nissan-LEAF-Super_Black-Los_Angeles-724326.html

2011 Nissan LEAF
SL Hatchback 4D Hatchback
Mileage: 7713
VIN: JN1AZ0CP9BT007570
Ext Color: Super Black
NOW: $19,995

Stunning. 20k retail for what's essentially a brand new car. This car will be the most expensive lesson I've ever learned.
Interesting... I wouldn't ever buy a black car, but it'll be interesting to see what used '11s and '12s go for once the '13 is out.

If it was in a mild climate, I might be tempted to buy a used one instead of leasing a new '13...
 
Well, considering I paid about 33K for mine and got 12,500 back in rebates, I'm pretty close to that for a brand new one...

jspearman said:
Stunning. 20k retail for what's essentially a brand new car. This car will be the most expensive lesson I've ever learned.
 
TomT said:
Well, considering I paid about 33K for mine and got 12,500 back in rebates, I'm pretty close to that for a brand new one...

jspearman said:
Stunning. 20k retail for what's essentially a brand new car. This car will be the most expensive lesson I've ever learned.
Yeah, the $7500 Federal tax credit and former $5000 CVRP (now only $2500) and '12 Leaf price increase makes pricing kinda screwy.
 
cwerdna said:
TomT said:
Well, considering I paid about 33K for mine and got 12,500 back in rebates, I'm pretty close to that for a brand new one...

jspearman said:
Stunning. 20k retail for what's essentially a brand new car. This car will be the most expensive lesson I've ever learned.
Yeah, the $7500 Federal tax credit and former $5000 CVRP (now only $2500) and '12 Leaf price increase makes pricing kinda screwy.
IMO used car prices are based on demand and supply not what one paid for the new car, my state do not have any credit /rebate for EV
 
jspearman said:
EdmondLeaf said:
below 20K$ retail
http://www.keyeschevy.com/vehicle/2011-Nissan-LEAF-Super_Black-Los_Angeles-724326.html

2011 Nissan LEAF
SL Hatchback 4D Hatchback
Mileage: 7713
VIN: JN1AZ0CP9BT007570
Ext Color: Super Black
NOW: $19,995

Stunning. 20k retail for what's essentially a brand new car. This car will be the most expensive lesson I've ever learned.

Wow.... I am a bit shock to see that price actually. I wonder how much valuation will I get if I tried to trade in our Leaf and get back into a regular car....
 
mxp said:
jspearman said:
EdmondLeaf said:
below 20K$ retail
http://www.keyeschevy.com/vehicle/2011-Nissan-LEAF-Super_Black-Los_Angeles-724326.html

2011 Nissan LEAF
SL Hatchback 4D Hatchback
Mileage: 7713
VIN: JN1AZ0CP9BT007570
Ext Color: Super Black
NOW: $19,995

Stunning. 20k retail for what's essentially a brand new car. This car will be the most expensive lesson I've ever learned.

Wow.... I am a bit shock to see that price actually. I wonder how much valuation will I get if I tried to trade in our Leaf and get back into a regular car....

the resale dealers cannot move them off the lot anymore: If they are asking 21k, they will probably sell for 19k or even less.
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/searchresults.xhtml?zip=92191&endYear=2013&modelCode1=LEAF&startYear=1981&makeCode1=NISSAN&searchRadius=500&sortBy=derivedpriceASC" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

think about it: would you buy any car that had a usable life of another 2 years or 25k miles for 20k? on the other hand, at what price would you unload such a car? The free market will end up at a price less than 10k IMHO. (if Nissan steps in and puts a floor on the price, as needed, this won't happen... How much faith do you have in Nissan?)

There is hope though: something sort of similar happened a long time ago, and the cars values have recovered
http://www.carsforsale.com/used_cars_for_sale/Ford_Pinto" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
The big unknown is the replacement battery cost. Buyer just starts deducting the cost or no sale. Until there is a real price the buyer will want a big discount just in case.
 
smkettner said:
The big unknown is the replacement battery cost. Buyer just starts deducting the cost or no sale. Until there is a real price the buyer will want a big discount just in case.

http://green.autoblog.com/2012/07/13/plug-in-vehicle-battery-costs-of-250-per-kwh-coming-with-drama/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's a 24 kwh battery in the LEAF - if it's currently $600/kwh, then $14,400 would be an estimated cost PLUS installation

If the price "dramatically" falls to $250 as predicted in a few years, the battery will only be $6000 PLUS installation one day soon

Not sure where that rumor of a $5k battery came from, but it certainly is not true.
 
gaswalla said:
Not sure where that rumor of a $5k battery came from, but it certainly is not true.
It's not a rumor, I have direct knowledge it's accurate. The price for a complete pack (dealer's MSRP) is currently around $5000. I expect it to cost less when they are rolling out of Smyrna.

-Phil
 
I am not a tech, have not been to any of the real trainings on how the battery pack is put together, but in the sales end of the training they tell us that the battery pack is actually 48 individual 4 module batteries so essentially if you have some sort of a tester you can tell which are the weakest/deadest in the group and just replace those instead of the entire pack.

That was one of the big things that I took away from the online courses on the LEAF because that was one of the biggest reasons I hated the Prius, that thing goes you are replacing the entire thing, the LEAF in theory should be able to find the bad one and replace it.


Could be horribly wrong though ;) might be impossible to separate the battery pack and find the dead/bad ones.
 
Like a replacement engine for an ICE car, the replacement cost of a complete battery pack is probably not relevant to figuring TCO, except as an upper worst case margin.

For example, an engine replacement (which is remanufactured) for my 911 is about 15K + core. But if something goes wrong with the engine, chances are that the subassembly will be replaced and not the entire engine.

So it will be for replacement battery packs for EVs such as the LEAF. If there is an entire battery pack offered up as a replacement, it will most certainly not be new (or virgin), but rather remanufactured, with all of its components brought up to current standards. And over the life of the vehicle, if the battery pack needs maintenance or repair, it will be repaired at the sub-assembly level. So a pack will have only the faulty cells or components replaced, and only after some threshold would the entire pack be replaced with another one. The old pack core, would then be remanufactured, and used on another vehicle. The recycling and remanufacturing of the core pack keeps the actual cost of repair or replacement as economical as possible. I would imagine that Phil's $5K quote includes a core exchange, and that it is not a new pack but a remanufactured one.

From what I can gather about replacement Pack costs, they are quite in line with other major assembly replacement costs for conventional automobiles. And given that the pack is quite modular, they will probably be less.
 
Ingineer said:
gaswalla said:
Not sure where that rumor of a $5k battery came from, but it certainly is not true.
It's not a rumor, I have direct knowledge it's accurate. The price for a complete pack (dealer's MSRP) is currently around $5000. I expect it to cost less when they are rolling out of Smyrna.

-Phil


Great information. Thank you. If LEAF resale values keep plummeting, looks like there will definitely be a market for folks like Phil to retrofit a bigger/better battery into an used LEAF with a dying battery that someone could possibly buy on the cheap.
 
Ingineer said:
gaswalla said:
Not sure where that rumor of a $5k battery came from, but it certainly is not true.
It's not a rumor, I have direct knowledge it's accurate. The price for a complete pack (dealer's MSRP) is currently around $5000. I expect it to cost less when they are rolling out of Smyrna.

-Phil

That is great news! Especially so, since we're hearing it from a reliable source.

The implication is, by the time I choose to increase my (then current) capacity and range in five to ten years, the cost from Nissan could be even lower, and suppliers of alternative or "rebuilt" packs, may offer even more desirable options, either cheaper or with larger capacity giving me longer-than-~20 kWh (available) range.
 
I still would like to hear the price from Nissan before I commited to buying a used LEAF with many miles and lost capacity.
Or the discount would be steep reflecting $15,000 as a possibility for battery replacement.
 
smkettner said:
$15,000 as a possibility for battery replacement.

$15K for a replacement battery is complete FUD, with no basis in reality here or otherwise. But with that said, if you think you can use it as a haggling tool to get a better price on a car, then by all means go for it.
 
smkettner said:
I still would like to hear the price from Nissan before I commited to buying a used LEAF with many miles and lost capacity.
Or the discount would be steep reflecting $15,000 as a possibility for battery replacement.

Back OT, I haven't seen any evidence of "plummeting" leaf resale value, other than as anecdotal reported from those who seem to have personal or financial interests in promoting the "rapid LEAF battery degradation" myth.

But if any of those Arizona owners with "degraded" battery packs actually offer them for sale at "degraded" prices, I think I won't be the only one considering what could be a very attractive purchase.
 
OrientExpress said:
$15K for a replacement battery is complete FUD, with no basis in reality here or otherwise.
I believe it is based on the component cell price times the number of cells + some for install.
But then I have not actually called to get a price on a single cell module.
Have also read the battery in the new car comprised 1/3 of the cost of the car.
Until the $5,000 price is public I don't fully believe that number will be the selling price either.
The point is we do not know so a well used LEAF is a risk.
 
Smkettner:

Yes, but estimating the value of a finished good on component costs is not a valid way to estimate costs of major automobile components for resale or replacement. A great number of types of high value parts consist of recycled and remanufactured components that are obtained as part of the replacement process, i.e. the concept of a "core". Manufacturers do this not only to optimize their manufacturing processes, but also to keep their inventory costs low. It is much cheaper to keep a remanufactured component on the books sitting in a warehouse than a new one. It is also how warranty costs are optimized. A warranty replacement will most certainly be done with a remanufactured part.
 
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