The charging timer is quite inadequate

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My wife and I would both like to have a simple button or setting to start charging in x hours. Rather than set a time of day timer, we'd like to configure our car to start charging, say, 2 hours after we get home and plug it in. The reason for the delay is to allow the battery pack to cool before charging starts.

The timer doesn't work for us at all because we have a very chaotic schedule. Neither of us are commuters. But we find ourselves coming and going at all hours.

John.
 
I have been delaying the charge start to allow the battery to cool as well. I don't know
if it even matters, but it's not difficult to do.

We have no TOU on City Light, so the timer in my LEAF is set for like 11:05AM to 11:00AM
and 80%. Charging always starts as soon as I plug in the dock, and stops at 80%.

I can, however, see where a "Start in hh:mm; continue for hh:mm or XXX%" would be
very handy. It would pretty much require using the nav system with it's complexity, getting
into the car, and powering up.
 
jbrawn said:
My wife and I would both like to have a simple button or setting to start charging in x hours. Rather than set a time of day timer, we'd like to configure our car to start charging, say, 2 hours after we get home and plug it in. The reason for the delay is to allow the battery pack to cool before charging starts.

The timer doesn't work for us at all because we have a very chaotic schedule. Neither of us are commuters. But we find ourselves coming and going at all hours.

John.
Schneider home evse has a delay timer. $729 at Home Depot online, although currently out of stock.
Push the button twice for two hour start delay.
 
jwatte said:
Specifically, I go further on Fridays than other days, so I charge to 100% on Thursday night, but to 80% all other nights.
Sure you can do this. Use Timer1 for 80% and assign Friday through Wednesday night for it, and Timer2 for 100% and assign only Thursday night for it (let's say 5pm - 5pm for both Timers1 and 2).

jwatte said:
However, I also get to trickle charge at work, but there's no good way of automating that within the available parameters. And if I manually start trickling in the morning, it may actually over-charge by the end of the day on a non-Friday.
Sure you can also use Timer1 set for 80% for trickle charging. Just don't use the Cancel Timer button that will force it to 100%. Just plug in your trickle charge at work and leave Timer1 at 80% on as usual and the trickle charge will stop at 80%. Of course your Timer1's program has to be ON during the day, too, for the trickle charging.

If you're on an ON PEAK/OFF PEAK program with your utility company, use the timer in your stationary charging station in your garage to program in this on/off peak time, and leave the Leaf's 2 timers to 24-hr always on.
 
Trying to set timers to not charge M-F 2PM to 8PM (my ON PEAK). Timer 1 set to Start 8PM and Stop 2PM M-F. Sat and Sun OK to charge anytime. Tried many combinations of settings for timer 1 and 2. Haven't been able to charge Sat after 2PM (turns off) for the life of me. In fact on Sat the charging timer says it's Sun. Tried setting different times for timer 2 and assign Sat and Sun. Tried just setting start times only for Sat Sun timer 2. Nothing. Any ideas? My goal is just to not allow charging M-F between 2PM and 8PM. Thanks.
 
vin944 said:
Trying to set timers to not charge M-F 2PM to 8PM (my ON PEAK). Timer 1 set to Start 8PM and Stop 2PM M-F. Sat and Sun OK to charge anytime. Tried many combinations of settings for timer 1 and 2. Haven't been able to charge Sat after 2PM (turns off) for the life of me. In fact on Sat the charging timer says it's Sun. Tried setting different times for timer 2 and assign Sat and Sun. Tried just setting start times only for Sat Sun timer 2. Nothing. Any ideas? My goal is just to not allow charging M-F between 2PM and 8PM. Thanks.
You're in a very similar situation I'm in. My peak time is 1-8pm M-F. It's possible to do it on the Leaf timers. I had it on the Leaf. But then if I charge on public station, I'd have to use the timer override and that charges up to 100% but I only want 80%. So I moved the timer to the Blink station in my garage and have my Leaf timer on at any time for 80%.

But if you want to do it on your Leaf timer, you'd want to set the start time at 8pm and end time at 2pm, Sunday through Thursday. Then you want a start time from 8pm-8pm Friday and Saturday.
 
jbrawn said:
The reason for the delay is to allow the battery pack to cool before charging starts.
John.

Some people do get confused about delaying charging because of the way the manual reads. The only time you would need to delay charging is IF your battery temp is in the red. Think about how many people opportunity charge as soon as they get to the charging station. CS confirmed this.
 
The timer is adequate, just barely, for the rollout vehicle.
It is just clumsy and annoying to set and to use.

However, both the timer options (and even the charge-to goals)
can easily be modified with software changes. No hardware
changes are necessary.

So, will the 2012 model have a "better", more flexible timer?

I suspect that it will not, because Nissan might be concentrating on
getting the hardware improved, and ready for the 2013 factory and model.

So, we might not see any timer changes, at least in the earlier 2012 models.

The good news is, the timers, as they are now, generally work.
 
Volusiano said:
vin944 said:
Trying to set timers to not charge M-F 2PM to 8PM (my ON PEAK). Timer 1 set to Start 8PM and Stop 2PM M-F. Sat and Sun OK to charge anytime. Tried many combinations of settings for timer 1 and 2. Haven't been able to charge Sat after 2PM (turns off) for the life of me. In fact on Sat the charging timer says it's Sun. Tried setting different times for timer 2 and assign Sat and Sun. Tried just setting start times only for Sat Sun timer 2. Nothing. Any ideas? My goal is just to not allow charging M-F between 2PM and 8PM. Thanks.
You're in a very similar situation I'm in. My peak time is 1-8pm M-F. It's possible to do it on the Leaf timers. I had it on the Leaf. But then if I charge on public station, I'd have to use the timer override and that charges up to 100% but I only want 80%. So I moved the timer to the Blink station in my garage and have my Leaf timer on at any time for 80%.

But if you want to do it on your Leaf timer, you'd want to set the start time at 8pm and end time at 2pm, Sunday through Thursday. Then you want a start time from 8pm-8pm Friday and Saturday.

Thank You I will try that schedule and report back. Never thought about manipulating the Assigned Days. :D
 
One very fundamental problem is that "Days" can currently only be assigned to one "Timer" at a time.

This limitation is something that could easily be fixed exclusively with a software update --- even with the most minimal change to the existing interface. When assigning Days to Timers, instead of just "Timer1" and "Timer2", the options should be "Timer1", "Timer2", "Both", "None". How easy is that.

In terms of this addressing a standard use case --- this car only has a ~80 mile range (at 80% charge). So I'd argue that it's quite common for people needing to charge both at home, and at work for the normal working week.

This "car" is largely a "computer program". The resolution for fixing this issue should NOT have to wait for a "Gen 2" Leaf --- this should absolutely be fixed as a "patch". There's nothing mechanically wrong.

Nissan: Please at least patch this problem.
 
kwhirky said:
One very fundamental problem is that "Days" can currently only be assigned to one "Timer" at a time.

This limitation is something that could easily be fixed exclusively with a software update --- even with the most minimal change to the existing interface. When assigning Days to Timers, instead of just "Timer1" and "Timer2", the options should be "Timer1", "Timer2", "Both", "None". How easy is that.
Not sure I understand the logic behind this suggestion. How would the car interpret the command to use "Both" timers on the same day? Seem to me that would be an ambiguous and confusing command, and would have to include some other element to determine priority. Please explain further.

Thx,
TT
 
kwhirky said:
When assigning Days to Timers, instead of just "Timer1" and "Timer2", the options should be "Timer1", "Timer2", "Both", "None".
As mentioned before, Timer1 and Timer2 can conflict with each other.

kwhirky said:
In terms of this addressing a standard use case --- this car only has a ~80 mile range (at 80% charge). So I'd argue that it's quite common for people needing to charge both at home, and at work for the normal working week.
The only reason to use a timer is so that you're charging during off peak hours to save money. That means the timer is really only needed at home and not at work. So one timer per day should suffice.

The second timer is needed more like for weekends when the peak time may not apply.

When you're charging away from home, the Timer Override button is designed to allow you to charge any time. But it has 2 flaws. The first flaw is that it doesn't allow you to set 80% charging. The second flaw is that it will go back to the timer if somebody disconnect and reconnect the charging connector from your car while you're gone, possibly not enabling the charging to resume upon reconnect.

If you have a charging station at home that has its own timer, you can work around the Timer Override flaw by setting the Off Peak schedule using the home charging station's timer, and set the Leaf timer's from 12am to 12am at 80% so you can charge anytime outside the house without having to resort to the Timer Override button at all.

I'm not saying that I support how they design the Leaf timer. Of course they can do a better job with it. I'm just saying that we need to understand why they design it the way it is so we can use it within that intention so we can get it to work better for us.
 
GM did years of research into Volt battery on how to get best performance & longevity out of it. They decided that the harshest abuse of Lithium batteries occur when battery is fully discharged or fully charged. When charging the last 10% (90-100% was the worse). They had originally planned on a 80% battery rance based on this information, IE battery would never discharge below 10 % and never above 90 % of capacity. This was to extend battery life. Since I do not own a Volt, but understand price for 2013 model has dropped like a rock (closer to Volt), I cannot say for a fact what their final production design was.
How does this apply to Leaf:
1) Leaf has two charge settings 100% & 80 %. This does not seem to agree with GM's findings on its face, albeit battery tech is slightly different. When Leaf says 80% does that mean truly there is 20 % capacity more that can be charged or is system engineered so that 100% is really say 90% of true capacity. With all the problems Nissan is having with loss of battery range in Arizona, regardless of their statement :twisted: "We do not guarantee any specific range on the Leaf", if they want to continue selling them they should do what they can to reduce this problem.
A) :idea: Better education of buyers before delivery and change default from 100% to 80 %, user must hit button to get 100% or set timer to 100%. Early adopters generally know these things & do what they can to take care of their Leafs. Most of us Set timers at 80% as soon as possible if they was sufficient to our daily commutes. I have owned my Leaf over a year and have not lost any capacity and live in IE of California where it does get above 100 degrees in Summer.
B) :idea: Provide option to charge to 90%. those who need a little extra range without damaging battery by charging the last 10% shoudl have an option to get it, unless Nissan Engineers were not smart enough when designing monitoring system to allow a SW update to tell when battery was at 90% charge. IE hardware based limits.
2) Today for first time I drove my Leaf to work about 63 miles one way, with headlights on (left at 3:45 AM). Drove at 55 MPH the entire way arrived with 17 miles to spare. :?: Now seeing what 11 hours of 120 VAC charging will do , IE get me home? With 17 miles to spare upon arrival would 90 % charge have gotten me to work with 1 or 2 miles to spare as opposed to the 100% I started with. If so would 90% save my battery from the Arizona Fiasco. I would rather not charge to 100% each day but 80 % is not going to cut it. If no help from Nissan is forth comming the Volt at its new reduced price is looking very tempting and at 2 years I can sell my Leaf without penalty.
3)Does anyone know why Nissan will not give users option to charge to 90%? Would it help prevent Arizona like loss of battery capacity and still give more miles & smiles?
 
+1
I wanted to thank everyone that has posted on this thread.
With the evidence of capacity loss, I believe that Nissan, because they designed their product
to only two setting's has set the user up for failure. They do need to take more ownership in their product.
I would like to see three timers. No restriction on percentage, let us choose if we want to be conservative or rock the full charge. This would give us the ability to figure out the exact percentage we need for our trip, staying away from the destructive sides of the battery.
 
We all agree they screwed up, the question I pose to Nissan is: 1) Can they fix it with software update on original 2011 Leaf? 2) Will they, 3) If so when. Whether or not you retain or loose customers., possibly for life, rests on your answers Nissan ! ;)
 
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