Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

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Sadly here's a LEAF from the cool SF Peninsula that joins the 11 bars club.
I've been driving the LEAF since March 11, collecting 20,300 miles in the process.
I noticed the capacity loss at around 20,150 miles.

I have 18 months left in my lease and I will return the car at its end.
 
^^^
Yow. Well, this further validates my reason to lease, when I finally get a Leaf.
JRP3 said:
SF, so yeah, cooler, but I also know of another LiFePO4 conversion in Reno that's coming up on three years, not sure of the mileage, and the batteries have heating for the winter but no cooling for the summer. No reported capacity loss.
An example of what I'm talking about re: the temperature delta is at the video report at http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Livermore-Nears-Record-Highs-162095805.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; from July 12, 2012. That day it was 98 F in Almaden Valley (part of San Jose I live in), 68 F in SF but 104 F in Gilroy.

Compare SF temps to what I posted about Phoenix at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=215907#p215907" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. At least in my area, even when it's 85-95 F in the day, once the sun goes down, it cools off quickly and will usually get down into the 60s a few hours after dark.

FWIW, I believe the temperature station/reporter for my area is actually down the street from me. That person compiles weather stats for an entire year and passes his report to the entire neighborhood.
 
sethr said:
It seems to me that as long as those who speak in public clearly point out that it is the lack of a TMS in the Leaf that is the problem (and that nearly all the other EVs out there have one); the public should not reach the conclusion that there is a problem with EVs, just that Nissan had poor judgment both in making the Leaf without a TMS and in not responding to the result of their error.
Well one needs to be specific. It is not a lack of TMS, but that Nissan sold the vehicles where they should have known better given there wasn't a TMS to protect the battery when it gets hot. One could argue that Nissan couldn't have anticipated this being and issue, but there were battery experts who did say something to that effect, so Nissan darn well should've DOUBLE tested for it. As it turns out, this is why I leased the car, even though I thought Nissan was a credible enough company, I was still wary of the technology.

GeekEV said:
Sigh. And there goes the public perception of electric cars - right out the window. I hope you guys are happy... You couldn't give Nissan a bit more time? How quickly do you expect a large multinational company to operate? :(
Sure it is unfortunate that the EV haters will latch onto this and start the anti-EV chants (again). However the Texans, Phoenicians (can I call them that?), and the SoCal types who don't live near the surf, have got plenty of evidence that there is a problem while Nissan maintains there isn't one. Instead of "hmmm looks bad, we're going to fix that", they get "it's a calibration issue not capacity loss". They sound like frickin' Pravda. That kind of response isn't going to do anybody any good and, at a minimum, is insulting to those with the capacity loss. If I was seeing what opposum et al are, I'd be pissed as hell too. Talking with reporters would probably be the least of my actions. I don't expect Nissan to solve the problem instantaneously, but I do expect them to admit to the facts and at least propose a solution, not deny that it is even happening.

Lucky types such as myself who live in more moderate climates can say we're all happy with EVs 'cause we've got plenty of capacity, free QC's all around, and the knowledge that dogs (& small children) won't melt if we leave them in the car with the windows up, but I am not going to chastise the capacity loss victims for speaking their mind when Nissan sticks a thumb in their eye.

We should ALL lament what's happening down south, b/c in the long run it is bad for ALL of us LEAFers, and support them until Nissan steps up to the plate to right the wrong.
 
Fabio said:
Sadly here's a LEAF from the cool SF Peninsula that joins the 11 bars club.
I've been driving the LEAF since March 11, collecting 20,300 miles in the process.
I noticed the capacity loss at around 20,150 miles.

I have 18 months left in my lease and I will return the car at its end.


Wow. I had a feeling that Phoenix was just the canary, and the coal mine is getting a whole lot bigger. I added this to the wiki.
 
opossum said:
GeekEV said:
Sigh. And there goes the public perception of electric cars - right out the window. I hope you guys are happy... You couldn't give Nissan a bit more time? How quickly do you expect a large multinational company to operate? :(
And exactly how long do I keep a $35,000 paperweight in my garage while Nissan holds to the "your car is performing normally" statement? My car almost can't get my wife to work and back. How about yours? I've made literally dozens of calls to Nissan. How about you, buddy? Our car has been to dealerships about a dozen times. Yours? Towed twice. Yours? We have written letters. You? Shipped it to Casa Grande over a month ago. Have not heard ONE word about what they did or what they plan to do. We're close to having to buy another car. So I should just take one for the team, all in the name of the public image of EVs? Riiiiight...

+1

Nissan could end this TODAY if they would just tell us what "gradual" loss of capacity is and if this issue is covered under warranty or not. Just tell us either way and we'll respond properly as adults. The silence is deafening. NISSAN is sinking the EV! Why are you blaming the victims?
 
Fabio said:
Sadly here's a LEAF from the cool SF Peninsula that joins the 11 bars club.
I've been driving the LEAF since March 11, collecting 20,300 miles in the process.
I noticed the capacity loss at around 20,150 miles.

I have 18 months left in my lease and I will return the car at its end.

Sorry to hear about this, Fabio, this is very sad news indeed. I was really hoping that here in NorCal we'll avoid these degradation. Does your Leaf spend most of it's time in the Peninsula, or do you often park the car in the warmer East Bay and South Bay? My car is nearing the 16k mark and it spends quite a bit of time parked under the warm Fremont sunshine.
 
All this news is kind of depressing...on the positive side I welcome more members to the 11 bar club...or in my case the 10 bar club.

The more of us with this issue the faster they might respond. This might be a trickle in the avalanche of complaints that will follow.

I just want out of my lease early or battery repalcement covered until the end of my lease. I do love electric though. I am not going back to gas ONLY.
 
I wish Mark Perry would sit in my passenger seat doing my 60 mile drives to and from work with no AC running because Im so concerned with my battery capacity loss or where to park a car in 110 heat longer then 5 hours in Phx or why his Nissan salesmen say charging a car to 100% is just fine..
There is so much crap that Nissan has hid from us to buy a Leaf
opossum said:
GeekEV said:
Sigh. And there goes the public perception of electric cars - right out the window. I hope you guys are happy... You couldn't give Nissan a bit more time? How quickly do you expect a large multinational company to operate? :(
And exactly how long do I keep a $35,000 paperweight in my garage while Nissan holds to the "your car is performing normally" statement? My car almost can't get my wife to work and back. How about yours? I've made literally dozens of calls to Nissan. How about you, buddy? Our car has been to dealerships about a dozen times. Yours? Towed twice. Yours? We have written letters. You? Shipped it to Casa Grande over a month ago. Have not heard ONE word about what they did or what they plan to do. We're close to having to buy another car. So I should just take one for the team, all in the name of the public image of EVs? Riiiiight...
 
This maybe to simplistic but now it seems like all Leaf owners have some ground to stand on. Ok the gauges are Off, Broken , Read erroneously. So Nissan fix them, If you purchased an ICE and the gas gauge quit working that would be warranty work. They fix this in a timely manner or everyone can claim Lemon law suit. I would not drive an ICE around and thne be wondering how much farther can I drive before I walk or I am left stranded. These individuals are not left to follow mileage and guess when the car needs to be refueled. If I hit my 2nd bar loss soon this will be my tactic and I will start the TX lemon law rule. Nissan has come right out and stated some faulty gauge ok, fix them.


PS not to be nit picky but yfhong 2nd bar loss person# 34 is only listed in that section. I was under the impression you would be listed under every section as you lose bars. Just FYI
 
yoyofella said:
Fabio said:
Sadly here's a LEAF from the cool SF Peninsula that joins the 11 bars club.
I've been driving the LEAF since March 11, collecting 20,300 miles in the process.
I noticed the capacity loss at around 20,150 miles.

I have 18 months left in my lease and I will return the car at its end.

Sorry to hear about this, Fabio, this is very sad news indeed. I was really hoping that here in NorCal we'll avoid these degradation. Does your Leaf spend most of it's time in the Peninsula, or do you often park the car in the warmer East Bay and South Bay? My car is nearing the 16k mark and it spends quite a bit of time parked under the warm Fremont sunshine.

Same deal for me, live in Belmont, work in San Jose. So the car is parked, during the day, in the San Jose heat.
 
well put!!

padamson1 said:
GeekEV said:
Sigh. And there goes the public perception of electric cars - right out the window. I hope you guys are happy... You couldn't give Nissan a bit more time? How quickly do you expect a large multinational company to operate? :(
Sure it is unfortunate that the EV haters will latch onto this and start the anti-EV chants (again). However the Texans, Phoenicians (can I call them that?), and the SoCal types who don't live near the surf, have got plenty of evidence that there is a problem while Nissan maintains there isn't one. Instead of "hmmm looks bad, we're going to fix that", they get "it's a calibration issue not capacity loss". They sound like frickin' Pravda. That kind of response isn't going to do anybody any good and, at a minimum, is insulting to those with the capacity loss. If I was seeing what opposum et al are, I'd be pissed as hell too. Talking with reporters would probably be the least of my actions. I don't expect Nissan to solve the problem instantaneously, but I do expect them to admit to the facts and at least propose a solution, not deny that it is even happening.

Lucky types such as myself who live in more moderate climates can say we're all happy with EVs 'cause we've got plenty of capacity, free QC's all around, and the knowledge that dogs (& small children) won't melt if we leave them in the car with the windows up, but I am not going to chastise the capacity loss victims for speaking their mind when Nissan sticks a thumb in their eye.

We should ALL lament what's happening down south, b/c in the long run it is bad for ALL of us LEAFers, and support them until Nissan steps up to the plate to right the wrong.
 
GaslessInSeattle said:
well put!!

GeekEV said:
Sigh. And there goes the public perception of electric cars - right out the window. I hope you guys are happy... You couldn't give Nissan a bit more time? How quickly do you expect a large multinational company to operate? :(
Sure it is unfortunate that the EV haters will latch onto this and start the anti-EV chants (again). However the Texans, Phoenicians (can I call them that?), and the SoCal types who don't live near the surf, have got plenty of evidence that there is a problem while Nissan maintains there isn't one. Instead of "hmmm looks bad, we're going to fix that", they get "it's a calibration issue not capacity loss". They sound like frickin' Pravda. That kind of response isn't going to do anybody any good and, at a minimum, is insulting to those with the capacity loss. If I was seeing what opposum et al are, I'd be pissed as hell too. Talking with reporters would probably be the least of my actions. I don't expect Nissan to solve the problem instantaneously, but I do expect them to admit to the facts and at least propose a solution, not deny that it is even happening.

Lucky types such as myself who live in more moderate climates can say we're all happy with EVs 'cause we've got plenty of capacity, free QC's all around, and the knowledge that dogs (& small children) won't melt if we leave them in the car with the windows up, but I am not going to chastise the capacity loss victims for speaking their mind when Nissan sticks a thumb in their eye.

We should ALL lament what's happening down south, b/c in the long run it is bad for ALL of us LEAFers, and support them until Nissan steps up to the plate to right the wrong.
[/quote]

But again, no matter where the car is driven, there is still a design problem. Are all of us guaranteed to live in a cool environment? People move all the time for various reasons. So whether we are having issues or not, Nissan needs to fix this for all Leaf owners.
 
Fabio; give us some details. i lived in San Jose and worked in SF. it was get up, toss coat in car, roll all windows down, drive to work. then every 10 minutes (slow drive) roll up one window. wait for slow traffic (iow, a near stop condition) put on coat. no matter what time of year it was, 90% of the time (even in Summer) by the time the sun went down i was wishing i had a heavier coat!

as far as Nissan regaining cred. companies have been in far far worse situations and recovered easily based on their actions to the problem. what we seem to fail to understand is these things do take time and relatively little time has passed.

Nissan knew these issues would pop up. i am not in the camp that Nissan is surprised by all this. i do think they are a bit surprised the monitoring gauges are so far off on a few cars, but the heat thing? they knew

but 5 years from now assuming Nissan does the right thing (which i think they will) all this will be a forgotten issue.

as far as the lack of information on possible solutions? its a Japanese thing. Toyota acts the EXACT same way
 
For some more data:

My pharmacist has a Leaf as well, purchased 1 month after ours. We asked him the other day about his capacity loss and he said he had not experienced any but was aware of the problems seeing articles about it.

His specs:

14 months of ownership
~9,000 miles
No capacity loss
Grand Prairie, TX
 
First some quote attribution corrections to preserve context:
downeykp said:
GaslessInSeattle said:
well put!
padamson1 said:
GeekEV said:
Sigh. And there goes the public perception of electric cars - right out the window. I hope you guys are happy... You couldn't give Nissan a bit more time? How quickly do you expect a large multinational company to operate? :(
Sure it is unfortunate that the EV haters will latch onto this and start the anti-EV chants (again). However the Texans, Phoenicians (can I call them that?), and the SoCal types who don't live near the surf, have got plenty of evidence that there is a problem while Nissan maintains there isn't one. Instead of "hmmm looks bad, we're going to fix that", they get "it's a calibration issue not capacity loss". They sound like frickin' Pravda. That kind of response isn't going to do anybody any good and, at a minimum, is insulting to those with the capacity loss. If I was seeing what opposum et al are, I'd be pissed as hell too. Talking with reporters would probably be the least of my actions. I don't expect Nissan to solve the problem instantaneously, but I do expect them to admit to the facts and at least propose a solution, not deny that it is even happening.

Lucky types such as myself who live in more moderate climates can say we're all happy with EVs 'cause we've got plenty of capacity, free QC's all around, and the knowledge that dogs (& small children) won't melt if we leave them in the car with the windows up, but I am not going to chastise the capacity loss victims for speaking their mind when Nissan sticks a thumb in their eye.

We should ALL lament what's happening down south, b/c in the long run it is bad for ALL of us LEAFers, and support them until Nissan steps up to the plate to right the wrong.
But again, no matter where the car is driven, there is still a design problem. Are all of us guaranteed to live in a cool environment? People move all the time for various reasons. So whether we are having issues or not, Nissan needs to fix this for all Leaf owners.
@downeykp: Your comment is pretty much what I meant (inferred) in my final sentence. Everyone who owns a LEAF should be concerned about how Nissan is reacting to this, whether they've currently got a capacity problem or not. I guess the attempt at humor in the preceding sentence muddied the message.

Clearly I'm a bad communicator as the last sentence was meant to be the thrust of my commentary, I guess I need to continue to work on that...
 
TickTock said:
Everyone who [owns] a Nissan should be concerned...
Yes. It is really unfortunate to see how Nissan's responded so far.

I am surprised. For some issues w/their other cars, they have responded in a positive way. See http://nissanassist.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I think the first one that went up on that site was for CVTs.

Long ago, the 03 and 04 350Z had an infamous front tire inner edge feathering issue, to which they extended alignment warranties at least twice and depending on the wear on your front tires, they replaced front tires w/a version w/a slightly different tread pattern on the inner edges and realigned your car. (I had this done to my Z.)
 
Dave,

my commute was the opposite. I live in the (relatively) colder mid peninsula (near San Mateo), and have a garage for the car.
During the day, the car was in my company's open parking lot in San Jose, so the car would cook during the day (usually at 1/2 charge in).
My commute is about 50m round trip -- usually taking advantage of the diamond lane. Avg. speed 65 in the morning and 40 in the evening.
I've been charging the car at 80% for 6 days a week on the average and using my company's chargers once each 2 weeks on the average.
I don't use ECO mode and have been driving the car like a regular car, nothing crazy (most of my driving is on 101, so there is no room anyway).

I got a case # today, but don't expect any solution.
Too bad, cause I love my LEAF.
DaveinOlyWA said:
Fabio; give us some details. i lived in San Jose and worked in SF. it was get up, toss coat in car, roll all windows down, drive to work. then every 10 minutes (slow drive) roll up one window. wait for slow traffic (iow, a near stop condition) put on coat. no matter what time of year it was, 90% of the time (even in Summer) by the time the sun went down i was wishing i had a heavier coat!

as far as Nissan regaining cred. companies have been in far far worse situations and recovered easily based on their actions to the problem. what we seem to fail to understand is these things do take time and relatively little time has passed.

Nissan knew these issues would pop up. i am not in the camp that Nissan is surprised by all this. i do think they are a bit surprised the monitoring gauges are so far off on a few cars, but the heat thing? they knew

but 5 years from now assuming Nissan does the right thing (which i think they will) all this will be a forgotten issue.

as far as the lack of information on possible solutions? its a Japanese thing. Toyota acts the EXACT same way
 
We should ALL lament what's happening down south, b/c in the long run it is bad for ALL of us LEAFers, and support them until Nissan steps up to the plate to right the wrong.[/quote]But again, no matter where the car is driven, there is still a design problem. Are all of us guaranteed to live in a cool environment? People move all the time for various reasons. So whether we are having issues or not, Nissan needs to fix this for all Leaf owners.[/quote]@downeykp:
Your comment is pretty much what I meant (inferred) in my final sentence. Everyone who owns a LEAF should be concerned about how Nissan is reacting to this, whether they've currently got a capacity problem or not. I guess the attempt at humor in the preceding sentence muddied the message.

Clearly I'm a bad communicator as the last sentence was meant to be the thrust of my commentary, I guess I need to continue to work on that...[/quote]

My fault. I totally missed what you said. That's what happens when I should have been doing my job and not reading mnl.
 
Aaaaaaaaand... the interview just wrapped up. Nissan did not want to do an interview for this story. Shocking! :lol:

That makes two interviews by the greater Phoenix Leaf community since the range test. One more to go. Nissan, are you watching? Set your corporate DVR!
 
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