Official Ford C-MAX Energi PHEV thread

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KeiJidosha said:
Nissan LEAF
Length 175"
Base Curb Weight (lbs) 3366

Ford C-Max energi
Length 173"
Base Curb Weight (lbs.) 4960

http://www.ford.com/cars/cmax/specifications/view-all/

?!?
I agree. 4,000 or even 4,200 I might buy, although with the Volt coming in under 3,800 lb. with a battery ~twice the size I find it hard to believe that AWD would add that much weight. I think someone boobed and put GVWR instead of curb weight.
 
GRA said:
KeiJidosha said:
Nissan LEAF
Length 175"
Base Curb Weight (lbs) 3366

Ford C-Max energi
Length 173"
Base Curb Weight (lbs.) 4960

http://www.ford.com/cars/cmax/specifications/view-all/

?!?
I agree. 4,000 or even 4,200 I might buy, although with the Volt coming in under 3,800 lb. with a battery ~twice the size I find it hard to believe that AWD would add that much weight. I think someone boobed and put GVWR instead of curb weight.


The C-Max energi is FWD not AWD.

Curb weight is 3,859 lbs (see http://media.ford.com/images/10031/2013_CMAX_Specs.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
 
DrInnovation said:
GRA said:
KeiJidosha said:
Nissan LEAF
Length 175"
Base Curb Weight (lbs) 3366

Ford C-Max energi
Length 173"
Base Curb Weight (lbs.) 4960

http://www.ford.com/cars/cmax/specifications/view-all/

?!?
I agree. 4,000 or even 4,200 I might buy, although with the Volt coming in under 3,800 lb. with a battery ~twice the size I find it hard to believe that AWD would add that much weight. I think someone boobed and put GVWR instead of curb weight.


The C-Max energi is FWD not AWD.

Curb weight is 3,859 lbs (see http://media.ford.com/images/10031/2013_CMAX_Specs.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
They're designing a CUV with no plans to offer AWD as an option??!! That curb weight makes a lot more sense.
 
GRA said:
SNIP

They're designing a CUV with no plans to offer AWD as an option??!! That curb weight makes a lot more sense.


We don't know what they plan, only the plans they announce. We can still hope a future enhancement. I really don't understand why they are not pushing AWD more with EV/PHEV... for the few times a year we need the awd (or even ICE) I'd be okay with a through the road hybrid which could be cheaper to build than a parallel hybrid.
 
Ford C-Max Energi Has 85 MPH Top Speed, Mentions Prius Plug-In Five Times In Press Release
http://insideevs.com/ford-c-max-energi-has-85-mph-top-speed-mentions-prius-plug-in-five-times-in-press-release/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
<snip>
Ford also highlights the fact that their plug-in hybrid can drive for over 20 miles all electrically, while the Prius can only do so for 6…which is a technicality of sorts by negating the highway portion of the EPA test. The Prius can actually drive about 11 miles (or more) provided you don’t trip the petrol engine.

The C-Max is priced at $33,745, which not accidentally, makes it just under 30K at $29,995, after federal credits are applied. The vehicle will be AT-PZEV compliant in California (HOV stickers for everyone!), and will also qualify for an additional $1,500 credit in that state. The Prius plug-in, has a lower starting MSRP of $32,760, but qualifies for less incentives because of its smaller battery, and actually nets out about $260 more at $30,255 in the end.
<snip>
cmax-priced-550x202.jpg
 
scottf200 said:
Ford C-Max Energi Has 85 MPH Top Speed, Mentions Prius Plug-In Five Times In Press Release
http://insideevs.com/ford-c-max-energi-has-85-mph-top-speed-mentions-prius-plug-in-five-times-in-press-release/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
<snip>
Ford also highlights the fact that their plug-in hybrid can drive for over 20 miles all electrically, while the Prius can only do so for 6…which is a technicality of sorts by negating the highway portion of the EPA test. The Prius can actually drive about 11 miles (or more) provided you don’t trip the petrol engine.

The C-Max is priced at $33,745, which not accidentally, makes it just under 30K at $29,995, after federal credits are applied. The vehicle will be AT-PZEV compliant in California (HOV stickers for everyone!), and will also qualify for an additional $1,500 credit in that state. The Prius plug-in, has a lower starting MSRP of $32,760, but qualifies for less incentives because of its smaller battery, and actually nets out about $260 more at $30,255 in the end.
<snip>
cmax-priced-550x202.jpg
Oh, I do like how they're handling EV/Hybrid modes. I'd be using EV Now for the minimal amount of town driving at each end of my typical trip, but spend the majority of my time in EV Later (same as the Hold button, I guess, for the 2013 Volt) on the highway/freeway. And I could actually afford one of these. The question is, do I make my move early and assume that BEVs aren't going to get significantly better range @ reduced cost anytime soon, or do I wait 2-4 years for something like Envia's battery to get into production?
 
This is Rev 1 for Ford, if I were to get one I would go for lease, but 20 mile range is just not going to cut it and probably winter time it will be below 15.
 
Let's see how it does in "the real world", the "specs" are better than the PiP, but how many are willing to buy a Ford Gen1 product? People don't drive specs... Toyota has more than 12 years experience with the Prius in the U.S., more than 15 years counting Japan (1997). To say I distrust the "big 3" is a huge understatement. They are going to have to prove themselves, I'd give them until 2020 to get it right.

My next car is a Tesla Model S, but won't be in until Spring/Summer 2013. Ford can only dream they had Teslas Model S backlog :)
 
drees said:
mitch672 said:
They are going to have to prove themselves
Yet you're going to shell out $60-$100k on Tesla's first mass produced vehicle?

Tesla has already "proven" themselves, the Roadster has been in production since 2008 (about 2500 produced), The Model S is an improved version of that drivetrain and battery pack design.
It is their first time making an entire car from scratch, however, more than a year will have passed and nearly 10,000 will be on the road before my delivery. They are also supplying 2600 drive trains to Toyota for the RAV4EV, and have contracts with other auto mfrs for engineering/supplying drive train components. Tesla is almost zero risk as they are %100 totally committed to EVs and seeing they are successful. The Big 3 are only doing it BECAUSE they are being forced to by Tesla / Nissan and CARB zero emission requirements. It's far less risky buying a Model S than generation 1 of a new design from the big 3.... Tesla is even less risky than buying a Leaf, not many issues with their battery pack in hot or cold weather, nothing has surfaced like the Leaf situation in Arizona, for example.

Back to the topic, I hope Ford is successful with the C-MAX, the competition could light a fire under Toyota's rear and perhaps get them to make some improvements to the 2014/2015 Prius/PHEV model refresh. They where already talking about doubling the EV range (25 miles).
 
mitch672 said:
Let's see how it does in "the real world", the "specs" are better than the PiP, but how many are willing to buy a Ford Gen1 product? People don't drive specs... Toyota has more than 12 years experience with the Prius in the U.S., more than 15 years counting Japan (1997). To say I distrust the "big 3" is a huge understatement. They are going to have to prove themselves, I'd give them until 2020 to get it right.

My next car is a Tesla Model S, but won't be in until Spring/Summer 2013. Ford can only dream they had Teslas Model S backlog :)
Oh, there's no way I'd buy until the car mags and Consumer Reports (for reliability) both have a chance to weigh in, in addition to my own inspection/driving. I keep a car for at least a decade, so buying the 'latest and newest' on spec and/or emotion has never been part of my buying style. It has to make sense long-term to justify replacing what I've got.

If my last 12 months of driving (<3,000 miles instead of ~6,500 avg.) were typical, it would make more sense to just do without owning a car, and rent as necessary. If I didn't own a car that's all paid for and in excellent shape, even with my average yearly mileage it would probably make economic sense to rent, even if it does add a large increment of inconvenience.

Economically, it doesn't make any sense to replace my current car with a new one regardless of type, so I have to see enough of an improvement as far as environmental and energy security issues go to justify a change. Based purely on current economic considerations and my operational needs, buying an HEV rather than PHEV or BEV makes the most sense for me now, but the question is how much do I need/want/can afford to hedge against future gas price hikes while maximizing the other issues.
 
You do realize Ford has been making hybrids for almost 10 years, and they've been very reliable.
 
IBELEAF said:
This is Rev 1 for Ford, if I were to get one I would go for lease, but 20 mile range is just not going to cut it and probably winter time it will be below 15.

The choice seems to be
- Energi this year / early next year
- Mitsu Outlander PHEV late next year / 2014

No other CUV PHEV is on the horizon ...
 
I drove one and it was spectacular. I was impressed enough that I put down a deposit for delivery of an X about when my Leaf lease is up...

drees said:
Yet you're going to shell out $60-$100k on Tesla's first mass produced vehicle?
 
mitch672 said:
The Big 3 are only doing it BECAUSE they are being forced to by Tesla / Nissan and CARB zero emission requirements.
It may be true that GM is producing the Volt because of CARB and CAFE regulations but, just to clear, GM wasn't forced to build the Volt by Tesla or Nissan.

The Tesla Roadster was announced as a concept in July 2006. The Volt concept car was inspired by the Roadster and was shown in January 2007, 2.5 years before the Nissan LEAF was announced. The Volt was approved for production less than 2 months after the concept was rolled out with a target date of 2010. Batteries were being tested soon thereafter and a refined production date of November 2010 was announced in the fall of 2007. The Roadster began production in March 2008. The Volt production design was shown in September 2008. The LEAF was first announced in August 2009. Both the LEAF and Volt began production in October/November were first delivered to customers in December 2010.
 
TomT said:
I drove one and it was spectacular. I was impressed enough that I put down a deposit for delivery of an X about when my Leaf lease is up...

drees said:
Yet you're going to shell out $60-$100k on Tesla's first mass produced vehicle?

I think that's my LEAF end game, just not sure how much less range for X over S.
 
They had an X prototype there and I queried the engineers at length. They claim the range will be the same. I'm not sure I believe that but they say that is what their testing has shown...

TonyWilliams said:
I think that's my LEAF end game, just not sure how much less range for X over S.
 
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