Tango
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:40 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 000895
Location: Mountain View, CA
Contact: Website

Re: Batteries Included: No War Required

Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:31 pm

Nubo wrote:Careful. There are some folks out there who confuse a desire for peace with a putdown of America.

I think the Leaf itself already pushes some hot-buttons just because it isn't using petroleum, doesn't pollute, etc.... How un-American! That's why I wouldn't want anything on the car shouting out "zero emissions", etc.. Wouldn't want anyone keying it in retaliation to my "smugness". I was actually thinking of debadging the thing.


I agree on some level. I was interviewed by the local paper (San Jose Mercury News) about being ready to reserve a leaf (this was the week before 4/20). The reporter asked why i wanted to buy an electric car, and i explained a couple of things such as my desire to not use oil, the environment, etc. One thing i did say was that i had a little bit of guilt for using gas in this day and age.

The paper In the "comments" that the general public gets to put in the mercury news website, I was completely flamed pretty severely by a bunch of people for the guilt comment (you know, standard "you liberal asshole", "damn Al Gore Worshipers", "why don't you kill yourself if you're feeling guilty for living")

On one level, it was entertaining to see people get so worked up over a simple comment, but it's also a sad sign of the times, and it may make sense not to rub it in too much.

On the flip side i have a slogan that I'm planning on using for my electric motorcycle conversion (and maybe the leaf too). I'm getting the plate frame printed, so i'll post it when it's done. :)
Red '11 Leaf SL, 33000 miles, 11 capacity bars
Electric Motorcycle owner (home conversion: http://electriceptor.wordpress.com), 3000 miles
Zapino Electric Scooter owner
I see a trend here...

User avatar
evnow
Moderator
Posts: 11438
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Batteries Included: No War Required

Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:32 pm

Nubo wrote:Careful. There are some folks out there who confuse a desire for peace with a putdown of America.


Personally, I won't be cowed down by such people. The day we all stop saying things because of the fear is the day democracy would have died here.

BTW, atleast around here I don't see any problems with "no war" signs.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to ?

indyflick
Posts: 505
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:18 am

Re: Batteries Included: No War Required

Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:42 pm

I wonder where the U.S. would be today if instead of spending $1000B on oil war II, we had instead invested that kind of money on solar farms and wind farms?

User avatar
hodad66
Posts: 486
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:43 am
Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2015
Location: Indialantic, Florida
Contact: Website

Re: Batteries Included: No War Required

Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:07 pm

evnow wrote:
Nubo wrote:Careful. There are some folks out there who confuse a desire for peace with a putdown of America.


Personally, I won't be cowed down by such people. The day we all stop saying things because of the fear is the day democracy would have died here.

BTW, atleast around here I don't see any problems with "no war" signs.


Exactly why I wear my t-shirts..... never been confronted yet.
BUTT my poor defenseless Leaf would be just the type of target
that these chickenhawk pansies would deface.
reserved 7-26-2010, RAQ 7-29-2011... Order Cancelled 9/26/2011,
Schneider EVSE installed (9/15/2011)
2012 Volt lease 9/22/2011, 2014 Volt lease 5/12/2014

AndyH
Posts: 6384
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:43 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: Batteries Included: No War Required

Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:04 pm

Yodrak wrote:Doesn't use [mostly foreign] petroleum - right.
Doesn't pollute - wrong.

You won't be charging your Leaf by flying a kite in a thunderstorm. As for solar and wind, what little of that there will be for quite a while to come, you know those coal and natural gas generators that are backed down by solar and wind generation? They're going to crank back up again when the Leafs plug in.

EVs will pollute less, using primarily domestic fossil fuels, but in the overall scheme of things electricity is not a pollution free energy source.


Just as it's wise to stay clear of 'always' and 'never', beware of applying national statistics to Leafers.

While a macro statistic suggests that the 'nation' uses 44.9% coal, the San Antonio mix is 38% coal, 33% nuclear, about 15% wind, and natural gas.

Drilling down one more step, I subscribe to a wind-only plan for 100% of my power.

So...while SOME Leafs might rely on coal, don't trivialize all the renewables that folks will use - either from their own PV and/or wind or from programs with local power companies.

As for 'right' and 'wrong' - those are just judgments. Sure, skip 'pollution' and 'global warming/climate change' if you want to get on fox 'news' or make friends with your local Republicans, but feel free to tell the truth the rest of the time. :lol:

smkettner
Posts: 7141
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Batteries Included: No War Required

Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:41 pm

indyflick wrote:I wonder where the U.S. would be today if instead of spending $1000B on oil war II, we had instead invested that kind of money on solar farms and wind farms?

That would be a lot of jobs here instead of there
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV

AndyH
Posts: 6384
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:43 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: Batteries Included: No War Required

Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:13 pm

smkettner wrote:
indyflick wrote:I wonder where the U.S. would be today if instead of spending $1000B on oil war II, we had instead invested that kind of money on solar farms and wind farms?

That would be a lot of jobs here instead of there

You're probably right.

Unfortunately, folks, when the US economy goes places in handbaskets, the military is there to provide jobs and security to families that would be running out of unemployment benefits about now. There are smart folks that expected we'd have reinstated the draft by now - instead a sour economy improved recruitment numbers. As much as my heart is behind pulling our troops out of foreign oil fields, I understand a least a little of how complex a web our economy really is.

Even the wind power hang-up we have right now isn't the lack of open slots on 'turbine planting parties' - it's in the lack of transmission infrastructure. So even if folks were back in the US, they'd be cooling their heels until the politicians pulled their heads out. And that's not likely from the 'grand obstructionist party' anytime soon.

Bloody sad overall.

indyflick
Posts: 505
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:18 am

Re: Batteries Included: No War Required

Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:34 pm

AndyH wrote:
smkettner wrote:
indyflick wrote:I wonder where the U.S. would be today if instead of spending $1000B on oil war II, we had instead invested that kind of money on solar farms and wind farms?

That would be a lot of jobs here instead of there

You're probably right.

Unfortunately, folks, when the US economy goes places in handbaskets, the military is there to provide jobs and security to families that would be running out of unemployment benefits about now. There are smart folks that expected we'd have reinstated the draft by now - instead a sour economy improved recruitment numbers. As much as my heart is behind pulling our troops out of foreign oil fields, I understand a least a little of how complex a web our economy really is.

Even the wind power hang-up we have right now isn't the lack of open slots on 'turbine planting parties' - it's in the lack of transmission infrastructure. So even if folks were back in the US, they'd be cooling their heels until the politicians pulled their heads out. And that's not likely from the 'grand obstructionist party' anytime soon.

Bloody sad overall.
Wait a second Andy. There's a big difference between soldiers joining the military and their mission once they are in the military. The latter is a policy matter and oil war II was a war of choice. The $1000B price tag is the cost to move the soldiers and equipment to the middle east, fight the war, post war nation building, and moving the soldiers and equipment out.

User avatar
TimeHorse
Gold Member
Posts: 999
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 4:40 am
Delivery Date: 02 Nov 2011

Re: Batteries Included: No War Required

Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:34 am

Well, personally I am a Tree Hugger. I love them all. Cyanobacteria, Ferns, Angiosperms, Gymnosperms, Grasses -- wait, is Corn grass? (OB: MST3K reference).

Anyway, I don't mind sharing that with y'all on this forum but my point is there's no need to fight it on the green front. The LEAF lessens our dependence on petrol products from places like Saudi Arabia, a country where the Bin Laden family got rich off the stuff and one of their sons planned something awful with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. I think every American can get behind that sentiment.

Also, from a political point of view, I don't like Ethanol and the reason is simple: using corn for gasoline means the price of corn rises which means the cost of the most staple food of Mexico rises which causes mass starvation in Mexico which causes instability in Mexico which causes a secondary, black economy to be created which, as anyone on the other side of Heroica Nogales and Tijuana can tell you means a lot more drugs and guns. Not saying the price of mais is the only reason for this, but it is one of the primary factors.

It's all about National Security, folks!

A version of this appears in my blog: http://aecn.timehorse.com/2010/09/its-m ... urity.html
Last edited by TimeHorse on Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
RIP CO2 Fre, 27 months, 42,282 mi & 11 bars.
unAmerican Job & Nissan's Rapid Depreciation cost $20,000!
5 hours on the road daily w/o Charge at Work on 100%.

Long Live CO2 Fre, Maxed 2013 SL, 20,000 mi/yr lease.
http://aecn.timehorse.com/

User avatar
garygid
Gold Member
Posts: 12436
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:10 am
Delivery Date: 29 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000855
Location: Laguna Hills, Orange Co, CA

Re: Batteries Included: No War Required

Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:46 am

If one legalizes the non-legal drugs (alcohol, tobacco, caffeine, gasoline, and chocolate are already legal), and taxes them heavily (we need revenue), there is no more black market to fight.

Keeping the in-demand things illegal just creates the market that gangs and mobs use as an income stream. Much like gasoline being so "in demand" feeds (and "fuels") the world's more visible "mobs".
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2011 LEAF, sold in 2015
2010 Prius, 2014 silver Tesla S
Nissan EVSE, mod to 240/120v 16A
PU: SDG&E
Solar PV: 33 x 225W -> 7 kW max AC
To Sell: X-treme 5000Li EV motorcycle

Return to “Business / Economy and Politics”