range extender

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abasile said:
Welcome to the forum! As for carrying around a generator all the time, I'd prefer not to give up the cargo space or have to keep gasoline inside the car. Really, the portable Nissan charging cord (included with the car) and a beefy extension cord are all I really need as backups.
I absolutely agree. All of this is fun to discuss, but any generator you could carry, would charge the car at L1 rates, which means a looong overnight stop before getting enough charge to continue a long trip. You're better off finding a place to stay that has electric service, and will let you plug in. The one time I called a hotel about this they were HAPPY to figure out where I could charge the car. Lots of other folks have made use of RV parks. Electricity is literally everywhere. The solution is to plan ahead, and be resourceful about finding places to plug in, not carry gasoline.
 
The other objection I'd have to carrying a generator (actually an ALTERnator, generators make DC)
is that ICEs have to be started and run from time-to-time or they won't work when you need them.
 
SnaxMuppet said:
I think the only sensible way to get extended range from our Leaf is an exchange extended range battery. Will Nissan offer this? IMO No. Nor do I think they will be available from 3rd parties. So best option... trade in for a new Leaf when they launch with bigger batteries.
I will actually be very suprised if a battery maker does not offer a pack that fits the well in the back of the Leaf, in three to five years time (When leases run out). Battery manufacturing is just ramping up, and it looks like there could be a glut on the market for a short time while the car companies are still trying to get the manufacturing lines up to speed. This could mean a sweet spot for battery buyers, and it can't be that hard to wire them into the existing packs. The Leaf can carry an extra 400 pounds or so in the back seat (Passengers now), which could be battery weight instead. For those of us that don't need all that space behind us, this would be an enticing option, and again, I would be suprised if Nissan doesn't offer it as well within a few years.

We have to remember, this is a first of its kind, not a well established lots of options vehicle. It will progress, and people will find ways to make it go faster, further, and be more efficient, but likely not all three together.
 
So back in October, 2 months before I received my Leaf, I bought a Honda 2000w generator as per my post about suggesting carrying a generator with you. Well, almost 2 months after getting my Leaf, I'll admit that generator has never left my garage floor. I may yet have a busy day of taking the kids to more than one or two rinks in a single weekend day where I think I'm going to get very close to not making the round trip back home but it's never happened yet. Once you get past that first couple weeks of getting to know the ranges you can expect based on your driving style and topography of the area where you drive around most days/weekends, you can plan ahead and make good decisions. You quickly learn the distance to/from work, to/from the mall, to/from the various rinks in your city (in my situation it's rinks, anyways). Also, finally installing my 240v charger in my garage around 2 weeks ago made everything far far far better to be able to effectively charge between trips.
Another trick/tip though that has been handy (especially at work sometimes): Buy a heavy-duty 50ft extension cord (12 gauge, not 14 gauge) and keep it in the trunk. It will reach a lot of places you ordinarily cannot get to. 12 gauge runs safely and does not warm up as 50' at 12 gauge can easily take up to 15 amps. I did the same originally with 14 gauge (the more common size) and the cord got plenty warm after many hours of charging. And yes, I do the trick of rolling the front tire (gently) over the cord to keep anyone from easily stealing it. Just make sure you don't cross the cords under the tire as they will wear pretty fast if you do.
 
This is best range extender possible and should be available to us too. Hopefully some day also in USA/states with most EV. My friends are doing 300+ miles trips daily.

http://www.chademo.com/04_maps.html
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid...9063&spn=22.391825,52.734375&z=4&source=embed
chademomap.png
 
Caracalover said:
The Leaf can carry an extra 400 pounds or so in the back seat (Passengers now), which could be battery weight instead. For those of us that don't need all that space behind us, this would be an enticing option, and again, I would be suprised if Nissan doesn't offer it as well within a few years.

Have you done the calcuation on how many miles are in 400 pounds of batteries?

If the main pack weights 660 pounds and gives a nominal range of 70 miles, then another 400 pounds would add another 42 or so - and this complete discounts any drop in range from adding another 400 pounds of weight - or 10% - to the car. That 42 assumes you have the same efficiency of energy transfer as the main pack - which is unlikely. The most straight forward way of incorporating a second pack is to use it to transfer energy to the first pack, rather then trying to redo all of cars electronics to be able to drive the car directly from the second pack. So you are down to maybe 30 miles of added range on the second pack.

Is a few dozen miles of extra range worth the cost? That's really something only you can answer for your own situation.
 
A/C Propulsion built a range extending trailer a while back for their T-zero car. It was pretty neat because it had steering so that you could back it up easily without worrying about it jack-knifing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_Propulsion_tzero" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;:
AC Propulsion also produced a portable internal combustion powered generator mounted on a trailer known as the Long Ranger that could be towed behind the car and feed power to the batteries during travel. The trailer used a 500 cc Kawasaki engine with a 9.5 U.S. gallon (40 liter) fuel tank and achieved 30 to 35 mpg over at least 20,000 highway miles. It is rated at 20 kW DC output and can maintain 60 to 80 mph. Video footage of the backtracking feature, which allows drivers to easily back a trailer through a set of slalom cones.

The backing up video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN8g3bcU7ZM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The trailer hooked up to a RAV4 EV:
http://www.evnut.com/rav_longranger.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
jeremyz said:
The trailer hooked up to a RAV4 EV:
http://www.evnut.com/rav_longranger.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's actually pretty cool. It is amazing that such a small engine is needed. That is what I don't understand about the Chevy Volt. Why did it need what is essentially a regular car engine? I mean, all you should need is enough engine power to sustain the vehicle at cruising speeds. The battery pack should be able to accommodate any sudden acceleration needs and also regenerate when going down hill.
 
Leaf owners have 2 cars, if the second is a Altima hybrid used for longer trips you can go 630 mile on one tank no problem then park it and use the Leaf. The battery is replaceable when future batteries like Zinc-air or others ore produced to reduce charge time and extend range. The Leaf battery cell pairs are simply replaceable as well so no matter what you will likely never replace the whole battery unit to upgrade or replace it, until then enjoy your leaf for it's designed use, like he said:..."
2 months after getting my Leaf, I'll admit that generator has never left my garage floor. I may yet have a busy day of taking the kids to more than one or two rinks in a single weekend day where I think I'm going to get very close to not making the round trip back home but it's never happened yet. Once you get past that first couple weeks of getting to know the ranges you can expect based on your driving style and topography of the area where you drive around most days/weekends, you can plan ahead and make good decisions. You quickly learn the distance to/from work, to/from the mall, to/from the various rinks in your city (in my situation it's rinks, anyways). Also, finally installing my 240v charger in my garage around 2 weeks ago made everything far far far better to be able to effectively charge between trips.
"
 
During the last five months I've driven about 5,000 miles (3,200 electric &
1,800 gas) for a 64/36 electric/gas split. I feel this is just about normal
for most Americans. This clearly shows that while the Leaf will handle 98%
to 99% of my trips, it still handles less than 65% of my driving needs. As
a single person, this forces me to purchase a second car for the one to two
percent of my trips beyond the range of my electric leaf. Building out a
recharging infrastructure doesn't help much as the time to recharge is too
long for the drive time. (A trip to the Atlanta airport for a flight out
would go from 2 hrs to 3 hrs and would leave a dead battery at the end.) A
five hr trip to St. Augustine Fl would go from 5 hrs to between 9 to 10 hrs
because you would be force to spend at least 30 to 45 minutes recharging for
every hour of driving. (assuming 70mph freeway driving and QC's every 70 miles)
 
N952JL said:
During the last five months I've driven about 5,000 miles (3,200 electric &
1,800 gas) for a 64/36 electric/gas split. I feel this is just about normal
for most Americans. This clearly shows that while the Leaf will handle 98%
to 99% of my trips, it still handles less than 65% of my driving needs.
That's a great way to look at it. Yes, when the LEAF is not the appropriate vehicle and you have to resort to gas, you tend to drive more gas miles. I also agree with your statements below about the practical-ness of extended QC-ing (although I think your estimate of being able to go 70 miles @ 70mph might be a bit optimistic).

N952JL said:
As a single person, this forces me to purchase a second car for the one to two
percent of my trips beyond the range of my electric leaf.
You lost me here though. But I also didn't see exactly how you measured a "trip".

If you measure a trip the same way the LEAF does. I.e. when I go to the bank, then get a coffee, then go to visit my sister, then come home, and then later in the day go to the store, then to dinner, then back home, the LEAF counts that as 7 trips.

If on the other hand you are counting the 98-99% the way I think about it (in terms of days), then the picture is a bit different. My own personal experience is that I've had to resort to the gas car 5 times in the past 5 months. That's about 1 out of every 30 or so days, or 3% of the time. In my opinion, that's probably still too often to rent a car to use on those occasions. But if you can get down to 1%, that's basically 4 times per year (using my day-based definition), which I think would put you in feasible range of renting a car. I don't see how you are FORCED to have a second car.

Let's work through some numbers though. For comparison purposes let's compare having a LEAF as your only car vs. having a 30mpg gas car as your only car (I think as a single person having 2 cars would be excessive for most people). I don't know your electricity cost or gas costs, so I'll use the national average of 11 cents/kWh and $3.90/gal for gas. I'll also assume 4 mi/kWh.

Counting your electric miles (6400/year), that would cost $176 in electricity vs. $832 in gas. You'd also need 2 oil changes in your gas car ($60). So the gas vehicle would cost $716/year more than the LEAF. The question is: can you afford to rent a gas car for those 4 times/year that you need it? That works out to $179/rental. Depending on whether your trips were 1 day or 1 week this may or may not work out for you. But since rentals are usually in the neighborhood of $40/day, it seems pretty feasible to me. Even for me at 12 trips per year, I'm still looking at it being cheaper to rent at $60/rental if most of my rentals were 1 day rentals.

Of course maybe you've already decided to count the fuel savings in the LEAF against the higher purchase price, or towards a replacement battery some day, or some other thing.
 
adric22 said:
... Sure, you are still going to deplete the battery but it might add 15 or 20 miles of range. Then, when you park at your destination, it would keep running and recharging your batteries. After a few hours, you return to your car and you've gained 20 or 30 more miles of range. ...

Enginer has 4KWH and 8KWH range extenders for Leaf. They extend the range by 20 miles and 40 miles respectively.

4KWH Range Extender
Leaf4KWHs.jpg


4KWH Range Extender
Leaf4KWH_2s.jpg


4KWH Range Extender
Leaf4KWH_3s.jpg


8KWH Range Extender
Leaf8KWH_1s.jpg


8KWH Range Extender
Leaf8KWH_2s.jpg


8KWH Range Extender
Leaf8KWH_3.JPG
 
chenyj said:
Enginer has 4KWH and 8KWH range extenders for Leaf. They extend the range by 20 miles and 40 miles respectively.
Interesting - not up on your website yet - I presume pricing is the same as the PHEV kits? Any details on how it installs?
 
Something is wrong with these numbers... If the 24Kwh pack in the Leaf is good for 73 EPA miles, and assuming that only 21 Kwh is actually usable, adding an additional 8Kwh (assuming all of it is usable, which may be a bit of a stretch) is only going to add about 27 miles, not 40... If more than 21Kwh is actually usable, the improvement will be even less. And this doesn't take in to account any range reduction caused by the added weight...

chenyj said:
Enginer has 4KWH and 8KWH range extenders for Leaf. They extend the range by 20 miles and 40 miles respectively.
 
TomT said:
Something is wrong with these numbers... If the 24Kwh pack in the Leaf is good for 73 EPA miles, and assuming that only 21 Kwh is actually usable, adding an additional 8Kwh is only going to add about 27 miles, not 40... If more than 21Kwh is usable, the improvement will be even less.

We use the same way Nissan estimates "an estimated range of up to 100 miles[*] on a full charge." method. As everyone knows, the actual range mostly depends on driving speed. 21 usable Kwh / 100 miles = 210 wh / mile.
 
chenyj said:
Enginer has 4KWH and 8KWH range extenders for Leaf. They extend the range by 20 miles and 40 miles respectively.
This is an interesting development - anymore details about instillation and cost?
 
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