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DaveEV
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Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:45 pm

surfingslovak wrote:Right, absolutely. Interesting interpretation, but we still cannot be sure what the 75% reference really meant. Did you read the source thread? I believe that they they mention 85% or 86% SOC as full charge there. It would be logical if they continued that, and and SOC references were just that, and not percentages of usable capacity.

That said, 65% SOC would be obviously better as end point for TMS operation.

Yeah, hard to say exactly. Whether it's 65% or 75% true SOC, it's additional ammo to encourage delaying charging even to 80% in the LEAF (which is close to 80% actual SOC) when it's warm out. FWIW ~75% = 9 bars and ~65% = 8 bars on the LEAF.

edatoakrun
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Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:34 pm

2011 Nissan Leaf Battery Capacity Loss: Nissan Responds


By Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield

...“We’re aware of a few isolated cases where a very small number of consumers are reporting a one bar loss. (We’re talking less than 5 units versus the 12,000 on the road in the U.S.),” a Nissan representative told us.

Non linear loss.

In our original article, we told you that the Nissan Leaf workshop manual indicates the extinguishing of the first capacity light represents a 15 percent drop in battery capacity.

Losing that much capacity in the first year seemed drastic in the light of Nissan’s previous statements on battery life, but Nissan says battery capacity loss isn’t linear.

“In general, all batteries exhibit a higher loss of capacity early in life, but then the curve flattens over time,” we were told. “Our internal results indicate that the battery will have 80 precent of its capacity under normal use after 5 years, and 70 percent after 10 years.”...


http://www.greencarreports.com/news/107 ... n-responds
no condition is permanent

shrink
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Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:42 pm

"In our original article, we told you that the Nissan Leaf workshop manual indicates the extinguishing of the first capacity light represents a 15 percent drop in battery capacity."

“We can confirm that the state of charge[sic] is depicted as a non-linear scale but are not able to confirm the specific totals that each ‘bar’ represents,” Nissan’s official statement says.

Does this seem like a contradiction to anyone else? Seems like the official statement is unaware of what the service manual says.
2011 LEAF (Sold) | 2012 Volt (Sold) | 2012 LEAF (Lease Ended) | 2010 Tesla Roadster #501 | 2013 Tesla Model S #9001 | 6.827 kW SunPower PV System

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DaveEV
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Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:03 pm

edatoakrun wrote:
2011 Nissan Leaf Battery Capacity Loss: Nissan Responds
...“We’re aware of a few isolated cases where a very small number of consumers are reporting a one bar loss. (We’re talking less than 5 units versus the 12,000 on the road in the U.S.),” a Nissan representative told us.

I think we're around 10 so far just on the forum +who knows how many aren't on the forum...

leafkabob
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Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:13 pm

drees wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:
2011 Nissan Leaf Battery Capacity Loss: Nissan Responds
...“We’re aware of a few isolated cases where a very small number of consumers are reporting a one bar loss. (We’re talking less than 5 units versus the 12,000 on the road in the U.S.),” a Nissan representative told us.

I think we're around 10 so far just on the forum +who knows how many aren't on the forum...

It would be very interesting to poll the Phoenix/Tucson Leaf owners. I followed a red leaf into a parking lot last week and had a chat about our cars. I asked him if he lost a capacity bar and he said he had, a while back. I asked if he is on the forum and he said he hadn't been since getting his car. Since I didn't look at his dash to confirm the dropped bar, i was reluctant to report it as another addition to the total.

I am beginning to wonder how Nissan expects to sell any leafs in Phoenix in the future.
Kelly

2011 White SL-e (sold back to Nissan on 01/10/2013)
2011Silver SL with new lizard battery purchased used on 9/9/2015
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Stoaty
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Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:46 pm

2011 Nissan Leaf Battery Capacity Loss: Nissan Responds


By Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield

...“We’re aware of a few isolated cases where a very small number of consumers are reporting a one bar loss. (We’re talking less than 5 units versus the 12,000 on the road in the U.S.)

Well, we are aware of twice that number, which means there must be more (unless everyone who has this problem has reported it on this forum).

Losing that much capacity in the first year seemed drastic in the light of Nissan’s previous statements on battery life, but Nissan says battery capacity loss isn’t linear.

That would have been good information to put in the acknowledgment we all signed when we bought the Leaf. That may be common knowledge among battery manufacturers, but I only heard about it in the last few weeks. I suspect this is true of most other owners.

“In general, all batteries exhibit a higher loss of capacity early in life, but then the curve flattens over time,” we were told. “Our internal results indicate that the battery will have 80 precent of its capacity under normal use after 5 years, and 70 percent after 10 years.”...

So the Phoenix owners can be confident they will only lose 1% a year for the next 4 years? Does Nissan plan to do anything for those who lose more? Are these internal results based on accelerated testing, or actual live testing of a significant number of vehicles over time?

I must say, I am underwhelmed by Nissan's response. Nothing about what they plan to do for the affected "5 cases" (who were all told this is "normal"). Glad I live in a cooler area. I would be pissed if I had bought a Leaf and lived in Phoenix. I certainly hope they are right, but from a PR standpoint I give them a D- :( The brand is already slightly tarnished in my mind... but still glad I bought my Leaf and love driving it daily. :D
2011 Leaf with 62,000 miles given to Nephew
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shrink
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Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:12 pm

Stoaty wrote: I would be pissed if I had bought a Leaf and lived in Phoenix.


That sums it up pretty well alright. I still have all 12 bars, but being in Phoenix, I'm not happy I bought
- and I'm really glad I just bought a Volt. I'm seriously thinking of trading in my 2011 and leasing a 2013. If they give me a hard time about having 11 capacity bars at that time, I'll tell them it's normal.

Someone else posted this in TickTock's original thread about AZ Lemon Laws. Anyone interested in pursuing this route?

http://www.bbb.org/us/Storage/16/Docume ... ummary.pdf

PROBLEMS COVERED
The lemon law covers any defect or condition that substantially impairs the use and value of the motor vehicle to the consumer. This is referred to as a nonconformity. The lemon law provides manufacturers with an affirmative defense if it can be shown that the nonconformity is the result of abuse, neglect, or unauthorized modifications or alterations of the motor vehicle.
2011 LEAF (Sold) | 2012 Volt (Sold) | 2012 LEAF (Lease Ended) | 2010 Tesla Roadster #501 | 2013 Tesla Model S #9001 | 6.827 kW SunPower PV System

GaslessInSeattle
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Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:55 pm

That's what I would do! Nissan simply does not know what is going to happen or they would have prepared for this. I firmly believe they should only Lease in area's where they are seeing this and they should offer some kind of concession to buyers who experience more than say 30% loss in the first 5 years... they should not wait for this to happen but instead create a bright line to assure their customer base. Everyone who owns a Leaf or is thinking of buying a Leaf anywhere is going to look at how Nissan handles this as an example of what they can expect if for whatever reason, they end up in the same boat. Preserving consumer confidence is critical or a bunch of people will bail from the brand.

shrink wrote:... I'm seriously thinking of trading in my 2011 and leasing a 2013. If they give me a hard time about having 11 capacity bars at that time, I'll tell them it's normal...
Gasless: Silver 2012 SL, traded in for Lease on 1/13
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Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:05 pm

edatoakrun wrote:
2011 Nissan Leaf Battery Capacity Loss: Nissan Responds


By Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield

...“We’re aware of a few isolated cases where a very small number of consumers are reporting a one bar loss. (We’re talking less than 5 units versus the 12,000 on the road in the U.S.),” a Nissan representative told us.

Non linear loss.

In our original article, we told you that the Nissan Leaf workshop manual indicates the extinguishing of the first capacity light represents a 15 percent drop in battery capacity.

Losing that much capacity in the first year seemed drastic in the light of Nissan’s previous statements on battery life, but Nissan says battery capacity loss isn’t linear.

“In general, all batteries exhibit a higher loss of capacity early in life, but then the curve flattens over time,” we were told. “Our internal results indicate that the battery will have 80 precent of its capacity under normal use after 5 years, and 70 percent after 10 years.”...


http://www.greencarreports.com/news/107 ... n-responds


My guess is this Nissan statement about only 5 is total BS. I'm willing to bet that there are at least a hundred and probably hundreds in the Phoenix area that have lost a bar or are close to it. Nissan actually knows how many so far based on the battery pack checks. They seem to be minimizing the total. Also, I don't believe we will have anywhere near 80% left after 5 years because when the 2nd bar goes that will be only 79% left and some have to be really close to losing the 2nd bar. In fact, we already know of at least one that has already lost it (based on an earlier post).
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RegGuheert
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Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:55 am

Nissan's attempt to obfuscate by painting this as a statistical anomaly is a big mistake, IMO.

I'll make my own prediction: Some Nissan LEAFs in Phoenix will be at or below 70% of original capacity after 2 years. We'll see how many Phoenix LEAFs are closer to that or Nissan's prediction of 10 years.
RegGuheert
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10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
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