Volusiano
Posts: 1461
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:41 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Mon May 21, 2012 11:45 am

kolmstead wrote:One other detail would be of interest in the list of "lost-bar cars"... what color the car is. I live in Ridgecrest, CA, which runs about 10 degrees cooler than Phoenix, but we still get plenty of 115 degree days. I bought a white LEAF, specifically to reduce battery temperature. My car sits out all day at work. I've seen battery temps from three bars to seven or eight in the past 17 months.
Mine is blue (I'm one of the 11 bars'er), and I don't take my Leaf to work, so it doesn't sit outside all day every day for 8 or 9 hours. Most of the times, it sits in the garage during the day in the summer time unless family members take them out to malls or restaurants or errands. But in Phoenix, you tend to shy away from going out during the day in the summer. You wait until evenings when it's cooler before you venture out.

In terms of trying to do some more scientific measurement to confirm the capacity loss, I haven't done any yet. I'll report back on what the dealer has to say when I bring mine in for the 1 year battery checkup in the next week or two.

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RegGuheert
Posts: 6419
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Mon May 21, 2012 11:56 am

Volusiano wrote:Mine is blue (I'm one of the 11 bars'er), and I don't take my Leaf to work, so it doesn't sit outside all day every day for 8 or 9 hours. Most of the times, it sits in the garage during the day in the summer time unless family members take them out to malls or restaurants or errands. But in Phoenix, you tend to shy away from going out during the day in the summer. You wait until evenings when it's cooler before you venture out.
Is your garage inside the air-conditioning envelope for your house? Assuming it is not, does it benefit from the house's air conditioning? What would you estimate is the temperature in your garage on those hottest of days? Your garage peak temperature must be quite a bit below the outdoor peak, right?
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

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TickTock
Posts: 1701
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:30 pm
Delivery Date: 31 May 2011
Leaf Number: 3626
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
Contact: Website

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Mon May 21, 2012 12:38 pm

Spies wrote:I seem to recall in order for that first bar of the battery status indicator to disappear a sizable chunk of battery capacity would need to be lost. I can't seem to find at the moment what the first bar lost equates to. Anyone recall?


Well, at 81% (228/281) I had all 12 bars. At 80.1% (225/281) I lost one. Seems like about 20% to me.

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turbo2ltr
Posts: 1376
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:13 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 185
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Mon May 21, 2012 12:48 pm

Code: Select all

100      12
85        11
78.75     10
72.5      9
66.25      8
60         7
53.75      6
47.5      5
41.25      4
35         3
28.75      2
22.5      1
16.25      0
Silver SL-e
Ford F450 Crew Cab Hybrid Conversion

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TomT
Posts: 10639
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Mon May 21, 2012 12:50 pm

Since the battery is under the car, I'm not sure how much real difference car color makes in battery temperature...

kolmstead wrote:One other detail would be of interest in the list of "lost-bar cars"... what color the car is. I live in Ridgecrest, CA, which runs about 10 degrees cooler than Phoenix, but we still get plenty of 115 degree days. I bought a white LEAF, specifically to reduce battery temperature.
59,991 miles/12 bars/289 Gids/68.54 AHr/101% SOH/101.64% Hx 7May15 w/ new Lizard (barely made the warranty).
71,770 miles/12 bars/256 Gids/59.04 AHr/88% SOH/87.92% Hx 3Mar16 at 5 yr lease return.

Now driving a 2019 Tesla Model 3 LR FSD.

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TonyWilliams
Posts: 10085
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Mon May 21, 2012 2:07 pm

Volusiano wrote:In terms of trying to do some more scientific measurement to confirm the capacity loss, I haven't done any yet. I'll report back on what the dealer has to say when I bring mine in for the 1 year battery checkup in the next week or two.


Here's your dealer visit:

So, how did my car make out, the LEAF with 15% battery capacity loss?

Congrats! 5 stars!!! All is well !!!

But, I have 15% capacity loss.

That's normal. Thanks for playing.

Next customer.

Yes, I also have a capacity loss on my LEAF, but it's 2 missing bars.

Yes, normal. All is well; Nissan told me so. Next.

Hi, I also own a LEAF, and I have 3 missing capacity bars!!!! OMG !

Yes, completely normal, because you got them in order. First one was lost, then two, now three. See, that's what we call "gradual loss".

But what happens if I lost all 12 bars?

Did you lose them in order? One, then two, etc?

Yes

Have fun walking, cause that's normal, even though your car won't move.

Thanks for playing. Can I send you up to sales to get a new LEAF?

smkettner
Posts: 7313
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Mon May 21, 2012 2:18 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:Thanks for playing. Can I send you up to sales to get a new LEAF?


No thanks, I am ordering a 150 mile 12 year warranted battery from China.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

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Ingineer
Posts: 2741
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:09 pm
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2011
Leaf Number: 6969
Location: Berkeley, California
Contact: Website

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Mon May 21, 2012 3:52 pm

vegastar wrote:I just bring this up because the 231 gids I get at 80% charge are not 80% of 281 gids, but 82,2%. And I remember Engineer (I think) saying that the 80% charge is the true 80% capacity of the battery unlike the 100% charge that is below the true 100% charge. As the 80% charge gid value is much more stable (I ALWAYS get 231 gids) it could be a better value to evaluate battery capacity.
Yes, when you set an 80% charge, it actually stops at 80% True SoC (Battery ECU's Reported SoC). When I do a charge to 100%, the numbers usually are 94%-95% SoC, with low SoC numbers also having lower Gids. (Keep in mind a Gid is 80 watt-hours)

So really the difference between "80%" and "100%" is actually only at most 15% not the 20% you'd expect.

Another good reason to only charge to 80% unless you need the "full" 94-95%. (You'd only be gaining at most 15%!)

-Phil
Easily Learn Electricity HERE! - - - - Website: http://evseupgrade.com/ - - - - Like us on Facebook: EVSE Upgrade

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Ingineer
Posts: 2741
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:09 pm
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2011
Leaf Number: 6969
Location: Berkeley, California
Contact: Website

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Mon May 21, 2012 4:01 pm

I just want to say, even if Nissan tested the Leaf in Phoenix, it pretty much had to be an accelerated life test, not the kind of real-time life test currently underway by all of Nissan's Phoenix customers. There are calendar life effects in Lithium chemistries as well as temperature and cycling. They may well interact in non-predictable ways.

I'm in the mild San Francisco Bay Area so I'll likely rarely charge or store a battery over 80 degrees F, but I'm going to watch mine closely.

-Phil
Easily Learn Electricity HERE! - - - - Website: http://evseupgrade.com/ - - - - Like us on Facebook: EVSE Upgrade

cwerdna
Posts: 9181
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Mon May 21, 2012 4:17 pm

Out of the owners RegGuheert identified at viewtopic.php?p=199156#p199156, it'd be interesting to know for how long each of these is typically parked outside in the sun vs. under covered, presumably cooler parking and out of any direct sunlight.

It'd be interesting to know the same for Leaf owners in AZ who have about the same amount of time and mileage on their batteries and haven't lost a bar yet.

If I owned a Leaf, even here in the Bay Area (I live in the South Bay, which can get hot), I'd personally take precautions to keep it under covered parking or to park it where it gets less exposure to/fewer hours of direct sunlight/day (shaded by buildings, trees, etc.), where possible.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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