Electric drive vehicle credit 8936 decreased/rejected by IRS

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Withholding more tax? I think you mean claiming more exemptions so as to withhold less tax.

The IRS has a very good withholding calculator you can use: http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=96196,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
GaslessInSeattle said:
It sounds like it's not so random. our refund status on the IRS web site has been "Your tax return has been received and is being processed" for many months. We filed in early February and it's getting kind of nerve wracking. It appears that a few things could be adding to the delay. Our tax person has called and found that they are "investigating" the claim and that the main red flag is the EV credit. Our accountant told us we are in IRS limbo land, (text snipped) .... In hind sight, our accountant suggests trying to avoid ever having a refund over $10,000, as it automatically flags your account.
I was a little concerned reading this thread about fed tax returns with EV credits randomly being held up, esp. with refunds >$10k .... Surprisingly, we received our CA tax refund within 5 days of our preparer e-filing (4/12). We're still waiting for our Fed refund, though it's only been a couple of weeks. We're expecting a >$10k refund on a return that is slightly complicated, even before the EV credit, which is pretty straight forward. Did we get plucked into 'IRS Limbo Land'?

Thankfully, you can check the website, http://www.irs.gov" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, and click on "Where's My Refund" then on "Go Get My Refund Status." What a relief it was to read:
"Your tax refund is scheduled to be direct deposited on May 2, 2012. If your refund is not credited to your account by May 7, 2012, check with your bank to find out if it has been received ...."
So, we passed the '>$10k flag'. Afterall, we've experienced 'IRS Limbo Land' before and don't want to go back. :roll:
 
sorry, yes that is what I meant. it's been a long day, I corrected the post. thanks!

GeekEV said:
Withholding more tax? I think you mean claiming more exemptions so as to withhold less tax.

The IRS has a very good withholding calculator you can use: http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=96196,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
planet4ever said:
gmuzhik said:
The way to check is to do form 6251 and compare line 31 or 54 with your total tax on form 1040, line 61. In my case, the IRS took the higher one on form 6251. There is nothing I can find that supports this.
That restriction does, in effect, apply to form 8911, the EVSE credit. If your TMT is that high you will definitely not get anything for the EVSE credit, and you shouldn't even try. Did you perhaps submit 8911 along with your other tax forms? I am beginning to suspect that some person or computer program at the IRS is getting the rules for 8911 and 8936 confused. My nonprofessional advice is to resubmit without form 8911 if your TMT (form 6251 line 33) is anywhere within $8K of your regular tax before credits (form 1040 line 46).

Ray
Ray, Maybe you are on to something here. Yes, I did file 8911 for my EVSE and yes the TMT zeroed it out. If the IRS confuses the two then there is something seriously wrong with their system. Great question to ask them though. Thanks for the idea.
Gary
 
I looked at this line 31 business, and in my case the answer was zero. What I noted, though, is that when you file as single, the exemption for AMT is far less than the exemption for filing jointly. So that makes you much more likely to have a positive TMT. The other difference is that I filed 8936. I can't keep track of all the different forms, since they are largely the same. In fact, I pretended to fill out 8910 (which the program had no trouble with). When I then filled out the 8936, it was the same calculations, with the same results.
 
I used TurboTax, got over a $10k refund (should have lowered my withholdings) and got my refund in a timely manner - couple of weeks at the longest. I did qualify for a bit of AMT this year, less than $500. Also filed for 8936 according to TurboTax.

Form 8936 seems quite clear: You get $7,500 back for the car unless line 46 of 1040 (minus personal deductions) is less (which means your tax liability is less than $7,500).

I've never heard of this "TMT" before and Google doesn't turn up much, either.
 
drees said:
I've never heard of this "TMT" before and Google doesn't turn up much, either.

TMT is Tentative Minimum Tax and it is part of the calculation on Form 6251, line 33. The calculation varies depending on your filing status and income and other factors. It is the dollar amount from which you subtract your regular tax from Form 1040 line 44. If the result of that subtraction is a positive number, you owe the difference in addition to your regular tax. That difference is called Alternative Minimum Tax or AMT.
 
I am here in Texas and had no problems getting the full $7,500 back. Granted, my taxes are more simple than most. I used Turbo Tax, have no business credits, have no stock gains/losses reported. Just housing deductions and student deductions and credits. I think my final amount AMT was over 9k before all the credits were applied. So it was a nice chunk of change back.
 
GaslessInSeattle said:
It sounds like it's not so random. our refund status on the IRS web site has been "Your tax return has been received and is being processed" for many months. We filed in early February and it's getting kind of nerve wracking. It appears that a few things could be adding to the delay. Our tax person has called and found that they are "investigating" the claim and that the main red flag is the EV credit. Our accountant told us we are in IRS limbo land, where it takes many weeks, sometimes months to get shuffled around. From the talk she had with an IRS rep last week, we will likely have to come up with the invoice and prove we actually bought the car but won't even be given the chance till 30 days passes from the time the investigation started or something like that. I have never had such a large return as we have better planned withholdings in the past. In hind sight, our accountant suggests trying to avoid ever having a refund over $10,000, as it automatically flags your account.

for folks buying this year, I would consider claiming more exemptions as you go if you can to keep the actual refund from being large... at the very least, you won't be wringing your hands for months waiting for a big refund check.



oakwcj said:
mwalsh said:
I don't know about that, but I do know that the IRS is sitting on my tax return for this year. I've had private discussion with someone else in the same situation and who has contacted them - he's waiting on "an investigator" being assigned to his "case"! :shock:

I don't think it's quite that ominous. The IRS randomly selects some returns claiming certain large tax credits. They go to the "examination" -- not the "investigation" -- department to be looked at by an "examiner." The only problem I have with the process is that it is taking way too much time.

The "flag" is the EV credit. The selection process appears to be random. My refund is under $10k, so there goes that theory. Just because there are three people on this forum whose returns are being "investigated" doesn't mean that the process isn't random. My return is very simple: standard deduction, no Schedule C, etc. My tax lawyer friend told me that there have been cases of fraudulent claims for the EV credit in the past few years and that the IRS apparently decided to take a closer look at a sample. While it's infuriating to endure the long delay, we can probably blame the House Republicans for cutting the IRS budget for that.
 
oakwcj said:
My tax lawyer friend told me that there have been cases of fraudulent claims for the EV credit in the past few years and that the IRS apparently decided to take a closer look at a sample. While it's infuriating to endure the long delay, we can probably blame the House Republicans for cutting the IRS budget for that.

Speaking of which... Here's the report from the Treasury Department about the abuses. It's an interesting read:

http://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2011reports/201141011fr.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


There is a section in there on individuals claiming "excessive numbers of vehicles on the Form 8936", and stating they are for "personal use". If the car is for personal use, you can use the tax credit to reduce AMT. However, if the credits are for business use, the business portion of the credit cannot be used to reduce AMT.
 
Weatherman said:
Speaking of which... Here's the report from the Treasury Department about the abuses. It's an interesting read:

http://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2011reports/201141011fr.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


There is a section in there on individuals claiming "excessive numbers of vehicles on the Form 8936", and stating they are for "personal use". If the car is for personal use, you can use the tax credit to reduce AMT. However, if the credits are for business use, the business portion of the credit cannot be used to reduce AMT.

brilliant find.
how did you do it?
 
Very interesting report, and assure that EV credit, if EV is for personal use, can't be reduced by TMT or AMT. Not sure why IRS reduced EV credit for OP

A vehicle claimed for personal credit has a tax advantage because the amount can be used to reduce the AMT.
 
I wonder how many of these people intentionally falsified their returns and how many people simply didn't take the time to understand the nature of the credit but proceeded with it anyways based on "common wisdom" (e.g.- "I was told that my 2007 Zap Zebra would qualify for the full $7,500"). It seems that a majority of people don't delve into the tax code very deeply (same "what, me worry?" mentality as can be found with elections, global warming, programming VCRs and other complex issues), so I wouldn't doubt that there's a fair share of the latter..

FWIW- My paper-filed tax return took roughly 8 weeks to get processed and paid..
 
Filed TurboTax electronically with the EV Credit Form 8936 and a Schedule C (wife has a flower shop). My LEAF is for personal use only. Got the refund within three weeks, but due to lower tax liability, only got about $5600 instead of $7500.
 
oakwcj said:
The "flag" is the EV credit. The selection process appears to be random. My refund is under $10k, so there goes that theory. Just because there are three people on this forum whose returns are being "investigated" doesn't mean that the process isn't random. My return is very simple: standard deduction, no Schedule C, etc. My tax lawyer friend told me that there have been cases of fraudulent claims for the EV credit in the past few years and that the IRS apparently decided to take a closer look at a sample. While it's infuriating to endure the long delay, we can probably blame the House Republicans for cutting the IRS budget for that.

In my opinion their time would be better spent finding and eliminating the completely fake tax returns filed in order to get refunds! :x
 
mwalsh said:
oakwcj said:
The "flag" is the EV credit. The selection process appears to be random. My refund is under $10k, so there goes that theory. Just because there are three people on this forum whose returns are being "investigated" doesn't mean that the process isn't random. My return is very simple: standard deduction, no Schedule C, etc. My tax lawyer friend told me that there have been cases of fraudulent claims for the EV credit in the past few years and that the IRS apparently decided to take a closer look at a sample. While it's infuriating to endure the long delay, we can probably blame the House Republicans for cutting the IRS budget for that.

In my opinion their time would be better spent finding and eliminating the completely fake tax returns filed in order to get refunds! :x

Of course. But they hardly have to spend any time on the EVSE credit. The VIN is on the form. All they have to do is cross-check with the DMV database. It's ridiculous to have a humanoid "investigator" look at these things if the cross-check confirms that you've registered an EV.
 
Weatherman said:
Here's the report from the Treasury Department about the abuses. It's an interesting read:
http://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2011reports/201141011fr.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is a section in there on individuals claiming "excessive numbers of vehicles on the Form 8936", and stating they are for "personal use". If the car is for personal use, you can use the tax credit to reduce AMT. However, if the credits are for business use, the business portion of the credit cannot be used to reduce AMT.
I have posted the effect several times. Although I did not know why the credit was reduced. Thanks for the tip.
I skipped Leaf business deduction in 2011 for this reason. I will put Leaf into business service for 2012 and see if IRS tries to claw the money back.
 
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