2013 Leaf will add 6.6kW & new efficient heater

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Some people seem to think the A/C doesn't draw much power. That hasn't been my observation. I went through the dreadful Texas Summer last year with temps well over 100 degrees for 3 months straight. I found that running the A/C would reduce my range by 15% to 20%.

I'm sure if the temperature had been lower, such as in the 80's or even lower 90's the A/C would have worked less and used less power. But then again, if the temperature had been in that range, I would have just rolled down the windows.

I only used the heater in my Leaf maybe 4 or 5 times this Winter.. but we didn't get much of a Winter this year here in Texas. it was only below freezing just a handful of times. In most cases I just pre-heated the car in the garage in the morning before unplugging. So I left for work with a full charge and a warm car and never turned on the heater the whole way to work. The sun was usually out to warm up the car by the time I was ready to go home.
 
adric22 said:
Some people seem to think the A/C doesn't draw much power. That hasn't been my observation. I went through the dreadful Texas Summer last year with temps well over 100 degrees for 3 months straight. I found that running the A/C would reduce my range by 15% to 20%. ...
What temperature did you choose and where you using ECO mode? Both of those make a lot of difference.
 
IBELEAF said:
DurkaDurka said:
The 6.6KWh charger...is nice. :)
Where does it say anything about charger?
It doesn’t. The 6.6kW charger had circuitous confirmation from Katherine Zachary, Nissan's senior manager of corporate communications almost a year ago. Yet Mark Perry danced around that confirmation as late as December 2011. I do not doubt that the 2013 LEAF will have a faster charger. The question is how fast. Nissan wants to be the EV leader. To do that they must have leading edge technology, like the heat pump. I believe they also need to have the Chameleon charger technology that Renault just introduced on the ZOE. I think the lack of clarity is over the CHAdeMO vs Chameleon decision and how the SAE rules on the US QC standard.
 
adric22 said:
Some people seem to think the A/C doesn't draw much power. That hasn't been my observation. I went through the dreadful Texas Summer last year with temps well over 100 degrees for 3 months straight. I found that running the A/C would reduce my range by 15% to 20%.

Last summer we had 100-105 30-some-odd days here in arkansas after I got my leaf. I cranked the a/c all the time and never got below the range I get with the climate control off. The A/C power draw is rarely more than a tiny sliver on the gauge (and even when it is that's usually only for a few minutes right after turning it on), I never have less than expected mileage, and the a/c is always plenty to keep the car cool.
 
defiancecp said:
Last summer we had 100-105 30-some-odd days here in arkansas after I got my leaf. I cranked the a/c all the time and never got below the range I get with the climate control off.

That's just not possible (unless your idea of range is what the GuessOmeter provides).

That AC pump uses high voltage straight out of the battery. The more it pumps, the more it uses.
 
leafedbehind said:
On the 6.6kW charger -- anyone know if we should expect ingineer's charger mod to continue to work on the 2013? Presumably at a 3.6 kW rate?

It will work, but it will charge at the same 2011/2012 rate. The modded EVSE will still only pass 16 amps @ 240 VAC, which is the same 3.3kw with 85% efficiency.
 
keydiver said:
leafedbehind said:
On the 6.6kW charger -- anyone know if we should expect ingineer's charger mod to continue to work on the 2013? Presumably at a 3.6 kW rate?

It will work, but it will charge at the same 2011/2012 rate. The modded EVSE will still only pass 16 amps @ 240 VAC, which is the same 3.3kw with 85% efficiency.

We don't know that the new 6.6 charger on the car will offer exactly the same efficiency at 3.3 that it does in a 3.3 charger.
 
GaslessInSeattle said:
Seems Nissan needs to work on managing expectations. any time you over state an expectation you turn a moderate improvement that should be celebrated into a disappointment

Mark Perry is like that, he is an optimistic guy.
 
Its strange that they would annouce this info now, with plenty more 2012's to be produced and sold....

anyone who is on the fence on a leaf purchase might wait til December/ jan feb 2013 to purchase to get the newer heater and interior, and the 6.6kw , important improvments most of us would like

in the car business hese annoucments are normally made in july, august or september

why tip your hat or whatever and let people know now?
 
kmp647 said:
Its strange that they would annouce this info now, with plenty more 2012's to be produced and sold....

It seems to me like they tried pretty hard to avoid it for those very reasons, but between a possible slip and possible competition from the Ford Focus Electric may have led them to let the cat out of the bag.
 
TonyWilliams said:
defiancecp said:
Last summer we had 100-105 30-some-odd days here in arkansas after I got my leaf. I cranked the a/c all the time and never got below the range I get with the climate control off.

That's just not possible (unless your idea of range is what the GuessOmeter provides).

That AC pump uses high voltage straight out of the battery. The more it pumps, the more it uses.

Impossible? Given that it happened, I think not, and I'm FAR from the only one who has experienced it. Just read any discussion about efficient a/c usage on this board. The pump is utilized only as much as is necessary to maintain evaporator core temperature. When the vehicle's inside air has reached target temperature and minimal air is moving across the evaporator, that takes nearly no power. So if you set the temp all the way down (in order to avoid any heater usage), keep the car in eco mode, turn the fan down as soon as the cabin hits a comfortable temp, then turn on the energy usage display - you'll see it's consuming somewhere in the 100-200w range (I think; the sliver of usage on the screen is too small for a closer estimate) - such a small draw that it is negligible impact. And you'll note that even in 100+ weather that's enough to keep the cabin comfortable. I used that method all summer - literally dozens of 100+ days, in a black car, weekdays parked in an uncovered lot at work all day - and never lost a measurable bit of range or efficiency, and numerous others on this board have experienced the same.

That's part of the reason I found the loss of range from the heater so vexing...
 
lpickup said:
kmp647 said:
Its strange that they would annouce this info now, with plenty more 2012's to be produced and sold....
It seems to me like they tried pretty hard to avoid it for those very reasons, but between a possible slip and possible competition from the Ford Focus Electric may have led them to let the cat out of the bag.
Either that, or basically they are currently so capacity constrained that they are still selling all they can make and anticipate that to be the case until Smyrna comes online...
 
I wouldn't be surprised if Nissan hasn't entirely decided what rate the 2013 LEAF charger will have, yet.

I expect, to rationalize production, Nissan would like to have one standard for all cars worldwide, which, IMO, is the principle reason for the "lowest common denominator" 2011-2012 charger.

Is there any market, except America (with its dysfunctional public charge infrastructure) for which an upgrade makes sense?

So Nissan may still be considering, just how many LEAFS it plans to sell here, Vs Europe, Japan, and other markets.
 
6.6 is a big deal and they should change it on the 2013 model

example, I make my 64 mile rt commute and arrive home at 4 pm with 2-3 bars
I want to use the leaf to drive 14-16 miles each way to baseball practice with my son.

cant do it, even plugged in for 1 hour at the low 3.3k rate i only get to 4 bars and I'm to nervous and take the ICE.

If I had 6.6kw , I would have been up to 6 bars plus by departure time.
 
Couple of things to note.

Renault Zoe will have a heat pump - which is "3 times" more efficient. I expect the same heater in the car.

Zoe's 40 kW charger has been designed for Europe where 3-ph electricity is ubiquitous. Ofcourse, we have 3-ph in US as well - but rarely seen outside the control panel in our homes.
 
kmp647 said:
6.6 is a big deal and they should change it on the 2013 model

example, I make my 64 mile rt commute and arrive home at 4 pm with 2-3 bars
I want to use the leaf to drive 14-16 miles each way to baseball practice with my son.

cant do it, even plugged in for 1 hour at the low 3.3k rate i only get to 4 bars and I'm to nervous and take the ICE.

If I had 6.6kw , I would have been up to 6 bars plus by departure time.

Your dream, and your utility's, and your regional electric grid's load managers' nightmares.

Maximum BEV charge demand, perfectly timed for summer afternoon maximum grid demand.

Many new electricity generation plants would need to be built, and the local infrastructure in you neighborhood, would also need to be upgraded, at great expense, since many other BEV owners will have the same plans.

Someone will either have to pay a hell of a lot per kWh for that charging behavior, or you will shift to an alternative.

Even if you get a faster L2, you will probably prefer a much cheaper alternative, a charge in the AM at work (or another L2 paring space) or to use a fast charge station, earlier in the day.
 
good point, I had tries to trickle at work that day but the lot was full and I had to park on the street.

If I had trickled at work I would have arrived home with enough range to make the trip to practice and back.
 
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