Prejudice and Range: A Michiganders dilema

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TonyWilliams said:
kubel said:
I got approved to plug in to 120V! :)

It's a step forward.

Awesome. Now, start making your backup plans in case this deal falls through, or is broken, etc.

Unfortunately, the area where I have to charge is a decommissioned receiving bay in our warehouse. There's just enough of a gap between the bay door and the frame to slip an EVSE cable through. I still haven't tested the outlet yet to make sure it's live. I probably should go do that right now. :)

::edit:: Tested ok. Also got clarification from senior management that my permission to plug in is on a 'trial basis', which I interpret that to mean I'm a guinea pig and when other gas drivers start complaining ("if the company pays for his electricity, it should pay for my gas too, it's only fair"), they will pull the plug.
 
You might want to look into alternate chargers near work. There might be some within easy walking distance or at least places you could "top off" if you find yourself running a little low.

Try searching near your work location
http://www.recargo.com/search" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
kubel said:
TonyWilliams said:
kubel said:
I got approved to plug in to 120V! :)

It's a step forward.

Awesome. Now, start making your backup plans in case this deal falls through, or is broken, etc.

Unfortunately, the area where I have to charge is a decommissioned receiving bay in our warehouse. There's just enough of a gap between the bay door and the frame to slip an EVSE cable through. I still haven't tested the outlet yet to make sure it's live. I probably should go do that right now. :)

::edit:: Tested ok. Also got clarification from senior management that my permission to plug in is on a 'trial basis', which I interpret that to mean I'm a guinea pig and when other gas drivers start complaining ("if the company pays for his electricity, it should pay for my gas too, it's only fair"), they will pull the plug.

Offer to pay for the power. Actually, don't offer; insist. You don't want it for free.

Deduct the value of how much juice you use. 1.5 kWh multiplies by the cost of power (let's say 12 cents) multiplied by the hours charged.

I come up with $1.44 per day, which is 1.5*0.12*8.
 
I don't think 120V can serve up 1.5kWh. You overcharge the boy...
Get that Leaf ordered. Oh wait, there is this issue with the carwings ok button...
 
or make a weekly donation to the coffee fund.. and post a note by the plug saying so when you use it, along with your cell number if anyone wants a test drive.
 
The plug probably hasn't been used once in the last 5 years, and there are a total of 6 of them near that dock. We'll see how that goes.

plug.jpg


As far as nearby chargers- it's Michigan, so there aren't many. When I started seriously considering the LEAF, I signed up for a ChargePoint account and got a card and went scouting for charging stations just to see which ones were practical to use.

There's one at Schoolcraft College next to their libarary, probably the best spot to stop for an hour or so if I need to. Public and free.
chargepoint_scraftlibrary.jpg


Another one is at Schoolcraft College's north lot (where I met a Volt owner who happened to be walking to his car). It's about a 10-15 minute walk to nearby restaurants, which isn't ideal, but if I need a few miles and was also hungry, it's a possibility. Public and free.
chargepoint_scraftnorth.jpg


And then one at an apartment complex. EV parking only? Ok, let me park this big gas guzzler there... This one has nearby restaurants as well. There are two parking spots and 1 charging station, so I would hate to make the resident there have to walk back out to their car to plug in after I got done mooching off them. But it was marked as public and free.
chargepoint_westland.jpg


I tried charging my gas car at each one of these but the plug wouldn't fit. Where do I find "unleaded" electricity at around here? :shock: j/k

There's also one about a half mile from my work but it's behind a gated lot with a NO TRESPASSING sign. Kind of lame that it's marked free and public but it's gated off. I'll have to contact them and see if it's OK to charge if I need to. They have 3 and only 1 is ever in use.
 
I just contacted my dealer and asked them if it's possible for them to loan me their demo from Thursday through Saturday so I can test my route. We'll see. I wish it was still cold out so I could do a worst-case-scenario test.
 
kubel said:
I wish it was still cold out so I could do a worst-case-scenario test.
Worst case you'd take another car. You should find slightly warmer temperatures more enlightening.
 
HI KUbel - been reading your MIchigan experience with interest.

I'm in Ann Arbor - just started my Leaf process -
where did you get yours - the closest one to drive
for me was Toledo!!!

WIll be asking employer to let me "plug-in".
 
testleaf said:
oh, forgot to ask, why you're not going for the free DTE home charger,
or did I miss that part?

The DTE promotion is only available for residential customers. It won't help me at work unless I order an SPX Power Xpress. But even then, unless I misunderstood their rules, I would have to wait until after I purchase the car to have them install the new meter and EVSE.
 
testleaf said:
HI KUbel - been reading your MIchigan experience with interest.

I'm in Ann Arbor - just started my Leaf process -
where did you get yours - the closest one to drive
for me was Toledo!!!

WIll be asking employer to let me "plug-in".


The closest certified dealer to me was Ann Arbor Nissan. I called them and they seemed friendly, but I got the impression that they were likely going to sell at or above MSRP (you can usually tell when phrases like "high demand" and "limited availability" are used). They also didn't have a demo leaf available and won't for a few months, so that kind of ruled them out. But the person I spoke with (I can't remember his name) was professional and courteous.

I decided to request a quote and then take a test drive at Yark Nissan in Toledo (a little over 40 miles from my house) since they had allocations open for March, were willing to let me test drive their demo, and were very open about pricing, lease breakdowns, etc... Chris Newman is their LEAF specialist and he's a great guy to work with. He didn't force me to get any accessories and offered me $500 below MSRP on a base SV. You can reach Chris at (419) 842-7605 or [email protected] (though phone is the best way to reach him). Let him know Jeff sent you, and just maybe he'll be willing to give me something for my referral. :) I ended up placing my order with them even though he wasn't the closest certified dealer.

Later, I emailed every certified dealer in Southeast Michigan and asked them if they could beat 5% below MSRP (which seems to be an attainable deal in other markets), just to see if it was possible to get a better deal. No takers. It seems up here, driving out of state for $500 off MSRP is the best we can do. One dealer, Gerweck Nissan of Monroe, suggested that they they were 'sold out for the next 2 months', and that 'nobody is getting competitive' due to gas prices and that some dealers where charging '$10,000 over retail'- and he's not doing that so he's sticking with MSRP. O Rly? I would recommend you avoid that dealer since it's unlikely he will offer anything below MSRP.

Just some advice- Although I have no way of confirming it, I heard Nissan dealers get *at least* 2.79% holdback on the LEAF. So subtract 2.79% from the invoice price, add destination, and that's what they pay for the LEAF. They should have absolutely no problem delivering 5% below MSRP. The problem is demand. If the car is in high demand at the dealer you are going to, they will naturally keep the price high simply because they know someone will pay it. But the LEAF is not in super high demand, especially in earlier tier markets (like Ohio). And the closer we get to the rollout of the 2013 model year, the more people will be willing to hold out a few months for a much better model. Even I'm tempted.

Let me know how your LEAF process goes!
 
My work is now having an electrician evaluate the safety of plugging in a L1 EVSE... after getting approval... ::facepalm::

Usually when things get this complicated, a big red DENIED is automatically stamped on the request.
 
Resurrecting an old thread to post an update:

Owning an electric car is a new experience for me, and owning one through a Michigan winter is an adventure on top of that. I promised myself when I got the car that I would treat it no different than a gas car. That means spirited driving, heater running non-stop when it's cold, and absolutely no range anxiety. Before I got the car, I asked for advice. Most said I could probably make it, and so far, it looks like you all were right.

This is the first time I've driven the LEAF to work and back (without charging at work) since it started getting cold. Here are my non-scientific results:

Charge: 100%
Preheat: Enabled.
Conditions: 26F to 33F, Dry.
Speed: Almost entirely 40-55MPH, spirited acceleration.
Drive mode: Eco (except for occasional normal drive mode when I started getting chilly)
Climate Control: 72F to 75F, set to auto, running non stop the entire trip.
Misc: Heated seat on Hi, heated steering wheel on, stereo on. Oversized winter tires (235/55/R17 Michelin X-ice Xi2) on 17x7.5" steel wheels from a Crown Victoria.

I got a reported 2.9 miles per kWh (may be closer to 3.1 miles per kWh due to tire size), drove about 53 miles (49 miles reported on dash), and arrived home somewhere between LBW and VLBW (I'm guessing I was within a mile of VLBW). This is actually better than I expected, especially considering I'm using the heater nonstop and am using these ridiculous tires and wheels.

I think I can expect a further 5% range reduction in January when it gets into the teens, so I'm probably going to eventually be forced to plug in or stop using my heater. The question now is whether or not charging to 80% at home, and then trickle charging for 8 hours at work is a practical solution.
 
kubel said:
Resurrecting an old thread to post an update: is...trickle charging for 8 hours at work is a practical solution.

You did get the approval to trickle charge?
I'd suggest that. First, the battery should last longer on the shallower cycles. Second, you have more margin for unexpected conditions. Third, pre-heated car will be a joy.
Probably should work out some security for the EVSE cable, however.
 
kubel said:
I think I can expect a further 5% range reduction in January when it gets into the teens, so I'm probably going to eventually be forced to plug in or stop using my heater. The question now is whether or not charging to 80% at home, and then trickle charging for 8 hours at work is a practical solution.

If you can plug in at work, that would be great. There is nothing wrong with the 120v charging as long as you have the time. I've been downgraded to 120v charging since moving to a new home and have not yet had 240v power routed to the garage. If you can 120v charge at work all day, you'd get nearly charged back up to full and you'd also be able to preheat the car before you leave while still connected to "shore-power" which should greatly improve the range on the way home since heating the water at the start of the heater is the biggest drain, and you'd be doing that with power from the utility instead of from your battery.
 
kubel said:
I think I can expect a further 5% range reduction in January when it gets into the teens, so I'm probably going to eventually be forced to plug in or stop using my heater. The question now is whether or not charging to 80% at home, and then trickle charging for 8 hours at work is a practical solution.
As I rule of thumb you can figure that for each hour plugged into a 120 outlet you will gain 5 miles of range, so over 8 hours you should get 40 miles added. Yours will somewhat less because of the the heavy tires and wheels, but still should OK.
 
kubel,
since the start of this thread was about how your dad felt about you getting the car, how has that worked out? Are you enjoying the car and glad you made this decision so far?

-Bill
 
kubel said:
I got a reported 2.9 miles per kWh (may be closer to 3.1 miles per kWh due to tire size), drove about 53 miles (49 miles reported on dash), and arrived home somewhere between LBW and VLBW (I'm guessing I was within a mile of VLBW). This is actually better than I expected, especially considering I'm using the heater nonstop and am using these ridiculous tires and wheels.
This is similar to my experience. Around 3.1 mpk at 32F and 60 mi range with heater, 80 mi without. Stock tires.
kubel said:
I think I can expect a further 5% range reduction in January when it gets into the teens, so I'm probably going to eventually be forced to plug in or stop using my heater. The question now is whether or not charging to 80% at home, and then trickle charging for 8 hours at work is a practical solution.
Watch out for this one. Below 20F you may see dramatic reduction in battery capacity, especially depending on how close the battery temp matches ambient. Best to store inside a nice "warm" garage. Check out our Norway poster for their experiences.
Reddy
 
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