The “range–extended” EV (BEVx) considered

DrInnovation said:

The super-lightweight i3 could get a lot of MPG out of a small motorbike engine, but even on a BMW motorcycle, which is literally a ton lighter lighter, the best was 62MPG (on a F650GS I believe).

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Most motorcycles, with the rider, are grossly inefficient aerodynamically, compared to a clean small car. If you put that 650cc engine in a streamlined body of the same weight as the original motorcycle, the fuel economy would skyrocket.

Weight is only one factor.


http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/FuelMileage.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

its impossible to get super high efficiency out of a small engine.. an atkinson cycle will do better but you will actually need a bigger engine with its weight penalty (1.2L for 30kw).. since the range extender will seldom be used in a proper BEV design then its more important to keep it light and cheaaap. Think or the range extender as an emergency device. Surprised no one has come up with a single cylinder design using the generator as an active dampener... and you could always use the waste heat in winter.

I would even fuel it with canned propane.. yes you would only get an additional 20 miles of range but so what?.. screw in another can of propane. Keep it light.

TonyWilliams said:

Most motorcycles, with the rider, are grossly inefficient aerodynamically, compared to a clean small car.

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Motorcycles have a poor cd but a very small area. I think a car would need a very low cd to make up for the larger area.

Herm said:

its impossible to get super high efficiency out of a small engine.. an atkinson cycle will do better but you will actually need a bigger engine with its weight penalty (1.2L for 30kw).. since the range extender will seldom be used in a proper BEV design then its more important to keep it light and cheaaap. Think or the range extender as an emergency device. Surprised no one has come up with a single cylinder design using the generator as an active dampener... and you could always use the waste heat in winter.

I would even fuel it with canned propane.. yes you would only get an additional 20 miles of range but so what?.. screw in another can of propane. Keep it light.
<snip>

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You would need a lot more propane than a small cylinder to get 20miles. A unit like this
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...productId=202222976&langId=-1&catalogId=10053
produces 2kw-h, and uses about 1gal per hour so if a leaf used .25kw at 60mph it would get about 10mpgLP and take 2hrs and 2 gallons of propane to produce your 20mile emergency range.

A larger unit such as
http://www.generac.com/RV/Propane/Products/QuietPact_40LP/
Can produce 3.4kw/hr using .73 gallons of propane per hour. Only needing 1.5hr to get 20miles and yielding 20mpglp. Note the same unit is available in a petrol version producing 3.6kw and using only .55gallons/hr.

Here's my Propane-Powered combination 30kW Quick-Charger/Range Extender. The Japanese guy to the left is Hidetoshi Kadota, Nissan's Chief Vehicle Engineer for the Leaf, he was asking me a lot of questions, and his English is so-so, but of course my Japanese is horrible! =)



Another pic:



-Phil

Ingineer said:

Here's my Propane-Powered combination 30kW Quick-Charger/Range Extender. The Japanese guy to the left is Hidetoshi Kadota, Nissan's Chief Vehicle Engineer for the Leaf, he was asking me a lot of questions, and his English is so-so, but of course my Japanese is horrible! =)

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Wow!, that's pretty impressive! I bought your portable EVSE upgrade but this encore steals the show! When will you make something similar available to others on the forum?

Ingineer said:

Here's my Propane-Powered combination 30kW Quick-Charger/Range Extender. The Japanese guy to the left is Hidetoshi Kadota, Nissan's Chief Vehicle Engineer for the Leaf, he was asking me a lot of questions, and his English is so-so, but of course my Japanese is horrible! =)

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Wonder whether Nissan would ever make an official range extender trailer. Perhaps they can contract it out to Honda, who would be looking for work in a few years :lol:

Ingineer said:

Here's my Propane-Powered combination 30kW Quick-Charger/Range Extender.
-Phil

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Phil - Have you worked out how to charge while moving yet? How are you planning to hook in, via the regen circuitry?

Anxiously awaiting more gory details...and pics! :mrgreen:

Ingineer said:

Here's my Propane-Powered combination 30kW Quick-Charger/Range Extender. The Japanese guy to the left is Hidetoshi Kadota, Nissan's Chief Vehicle Engineer for the Leaf, he was asking me a lot of questions, and his English is so-so, but of course my Japanese is horrible! =)

-Phil

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Totally Cool.. Even cooler that you had Kadota there checking it out.
What type of efficiency are you getting?

Ingineer said:

Here's my Propane-Powered combination 30kW Quick-Charger/Range Extender. The Japanese guy to the left is Hidetoshi Kadota, Nissan's Chief Vehicle Engineer for the Leaf, he was asking me a lot of questions, and his English is so-so, but of course my Japanese is horrible! =)

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Here are some pictures I took at the event Phil:


I love Kadota-san's little smile in this photo




I really like what you've done here. Please let me know if there is anything I can do to help productize this. I think it's probably too expensive to sell the the average user, but I think renting it out would be quite feasible.

I wonder what he is thinking behind that little smile; Crazy Americans!

so where is the turbine exhaust?

Herm said:

I wonder what he is thinking behind that little smile; Crazy Americans!

so where is the turbine exhaust?

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The intake is on the axis (through the generator) and the exhaust is covered up with the black duct tape. The exhaust temp is ~500F.

Herm said:

so where is the turbine exhaust?

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In those photos the exhaust is capped off.
When working there would be a fat/curved exhaust pipe coming up from where you see the black circle (cap).
He didn't have everything all hooked up in fully operational mode just then.

ahagge said:

...Have you worked out how to charge while moving yet? How are you planning to hook in, via the regen circuitry?

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He showed off a "piggyback" replacement power cable that he said can be used to put DC voltage directly into the pack and/or run the drive inverter. I don't think he has to do anything special with the regen circuitry.

This video will give you some idea how the turbine sounds when it is running (similar turbine on a different vehicle):
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02Y3YIwRN_o[/youtube]

Very cool setup. FYI I had one of those Harbor Freight/Northern trailers and found the tongue to be too short for smooth maneuvering so I extended it with square tubing, makes backing up easier, but of course makes the whole setup longer. I wonder if the genset is light enough to work with one of those single swivel wheel trailers?

JohnOver said:

Ingineer said:

Here's my Propane-Powered combination 30kW Quick-Charger/Range Extender. The Japanese guy to the left is Hidetoshi Kadota, Nissan's Chief Vehicle Engineer for the Leaf, he was asking me a lot of questions, and his English is so-so, but of course my Japanese is horrible! =)

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Here are some pictures I took at the event Phil:

I love Kadota-san's little smile in this photo . . . . . . snip

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Yes - with arms folded, it says, "You Gaijin's ... I give you a decent EV, and THIS is what you do?"

WAY TO GO PHIL !!

You have to admit, it solves many issues, such as the "demand charges" for L3 DC fast chargers, and its probabably the lowest cost fast charger availble. Of course you are substituting propane and some local pollution for those demand charges.

Its very clever, and when Phil gets it worked out, I bet he could sell those setups to AAA for Leaf rescues, and probably to many car rental agencies, who rent out Leafs, its probably cheaper than those CA demand charges, and it's mobile, so doesn't require all of the permitting and expense of a fixed installation.

I am confused as to what this actually does. Does it provide power on the run, recharge the battery or both?

91040 said:

I am confused as to what this actually does. Does it provide power on the run, recharge the battery or both?

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Both, is what his plans seem to indicate. Its a mobile propane powered turbine generator w/ a DC Fast charger (30KW), and looks like he's finding a way to connect it to the pack for recharging while driving as well.

Yes, it has 2 modes; Range Extension and Mobile CHAdeMO QC. They are independent functions. The function I currently am closest to finishing, and might even have working this week, is the range extension function. Surprisingly, The QC function requires much more engineering and testing.

When it's in Range Extension mode, it basically tracks the cars utilization so there is essentially no battery usage, though it can be set to also recharge the pack if it's low. The point is to take a long highway drive, running the turbine, then shut down once you get off the highway at your destination and run on battery. The turbine is most efficient at higher power levels, so it is happiest at about 70mph or better. =)

The mobile CHAdeMO QC function allows charging any CHAdeMO equipped car at a 30kW rate. Most current stationary CHAdeMO chargers are capable of 50kW, even though the LEAF doesn't pull the full 50kW for long if at all. (I've only ever seen it peak at about 48kW) This means a full QC could take about an hour, but it should be able to do 80% in a half-hour is you aren't totally flat.

-Phil