105+ mile range

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nemrut

Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2011
Messages
16
I did an overnight trickle charge and the next day had about 95 miles show as the range for eco-mode. After driving a few miles and going down some hills, the range exceeded 100 and maxed out at 105 before i hit level ground and starting using more juice.

Anyone else experience this. I'm wondering how much more range is possible beyond the 100m indicator.
 
Since the run from my house is all downhill, I have seen as high as 135 on the days when I charge to 100 percent... Of course, coming back home it quickly dropped!

nemrut said:
I did an overnight trickle charge and the next day had about 95 miles show as the range for eco-mode. After driving a few miles and going down some hills, the range exceeded 100 and maxed out at 105 before i hit level ground and starting using more juice. Anyone else experience this. I'm wondering how much more range is possible beyond the 100m indicator.
 
It is generally agreed here that the big number you were looking at is mostly useless, at least until you get close to empty, when it is fairly reliably pessimistic. We call that meter the guessometer, because the car's computer is trying to use your recent driving history to guess how you will be driving in the future.
  • You just dropped 1000 feet in the last five miles? The computer will guess that you are going to drop 10,000 feet in the next 50 miles :!:
  • You just spent the last five minutes in a traffic jam? The computer assumes you will be in that same traffic jam for the next hour. :shock:
  • You went to the grocery store last night? Then surely, according to its logic, you are not going to be on the freeway today. :?

My suggestion, which I think most frequent posters on this board agree with, is to ignore the guessometer. Watch the number of blue and white bars which surround it. That is your equivalent of a "gas gauge". And, like most cars, there is a "reserve" after the gauge tells you the battery is empty. At some point, probably while you still have one bar showing, you will hear a message telling you your battery is low. If you drive slowly and carefully you should be able to get another 15 miles or more out of the battery after that, but unless you are close to home you should treat that as a suggestion to slow down, and if you are on the freeway you should probably get off soon.

Perhaps ten to twelve miles of cautious driving after that you will get a second verbal warning that your battery is very low. Now you need to start thinking very seriously about finding a place you can get some electricity. You can probably go about half as far after that second warning as you went between the first one and the second one, but you normally shouldn't count on using that range. It might possibly be hard on the battery, and it's definitely hard on your nerves. The final warning is turtle mode, but you don't want to go there. If you see the red turtle on your dash, quickly find a safe place to get off the road, and stop. It's time to call 877-NO GAS EV for help.

Ray
 
Maybe some day the computer will be able to figure in altitude changes, traffic, wind, weather, and the phase of the moon and come up with a more accurate prediction. Currently, the algorithm seems to be a bit primitive.
 
LakeLeaf said:
Maybe some day the computer will be able to figure in altitude changes, traffic, wind, weather, and the phase of the moon and come up with a more accurate prediction. Currently, the algorithm seems to be a bit primitive.

The basic info to do all that is available, if Nissan decided to use it.

Like everything, it would cost money to develop.
 
Nissan should use a two week average to drive the "Guess-o-meter", the way it is now it scares owners and forces them to ignore it. Nissan can be obtuse at times, but thats probably what it takes to go ahead and spend $6 billion to mass manufacture electric cars in 3 continents.
 
planet4ever said:
My suggestion, which I think most frequent posters on this board agree with, is to ignore the guessometer. Watch the number of blue and white bars which surround it. That is your equivalent of a "gas gauge"
Ray

How are the bars any more accurate than the 'guessometer' figure? Isnt the visual representation via number bars simply corresponding to the mileage remaining number? Has anyone actually compared the two and proven that the bars are more accurate?
 
nemrut said:
How are the bars any more accurate than the 'guessometer' figure? Isnt the visual representation via number bars simply corresponding to the mileage remaining number? Has anyone actually compared the two and proven that the bars are more accurate?
They are accurate. The guessometer will only settle on a realistic number if you have driven in a linear and predictable fashion for about 10 miles. If you are willing to give it a shot, try the following method next time you are driving a longer distance (15+ miles):

- reset the in-dash MPK gauge
- reset your trip odometer
- wait for the MPK readout to settle (~ 3 or 4 miles)
- multiply the MPK readout by 1.5kWh (= miles per bar)
- watch your bars go down
- multiply bars lost with mileage estimate per bar (= total miles per trip)

This method is usually within 2-3 miles of the actual and is quite reliable.

To get the total range at the outset of the trip, multiply the MPK readout by 21kWh (total available battery capacity) if charged to full and by 17kWh if charged to 80%. Keep in mind however, that the last remaining 3kWh, or the reserve, will be accompanied with multiple low battery charge warnings and the last 10-15 miles of your journey can be a bit nerve-wracking because of that. The method itself is quite accurate however.

Tony Williams has prepared a very nice chart for other owners to use and once the SOC meter gets more sophisticated, we should be able to program our own guessometer, which will hopefully be a little less crazy than Nissan's.
 
nemrut said:
I did an overnight trickle charge and the next day had about 95 miles show as the range for eco-mode. After driving a few miles and going down some hills, the range exceeded 100 and maxed out at 105 before i hit level ground and starting using more juice.

Anyone else experience this. I'm wondering how much more range is possible beyond the 100m indicator.
The sooner you learn to ignore that number the better! People call it the "Guess-o-Meter" for good reasons!

You can find energy economy/range figures derived from observations and calculations. Those figures provide a good "ballpark" for your expected usage figures. In the end, because no two people have the same terrain, weather, driving style, driving condition, traffic condition, etc, you have a "ballpark" range of figures. If you need to locate the pitcher's mound, I would encourage you to keep a log of your usage: energy economy (mi/kWh), trip/odometer readings, state-of-charge bars, etc. Over time, unless your driving varies widely (for example, if you're a mobile technician and drive all over town), you will arrive at averages that are reliable and useful to you: mi/kWh, miles per SoC bar, etc. It took me as few as 7-8 charge/discharge iterations for my averages to converge to their long-term values.

(To be quite fair, I have the impression that the Guess-o-Meter is much more accurate at smaller values, when I'm down to the last 3, 2, or 1 bars, than it is when the battery is fuller. That's just an impression; I need to analyze my recorded data to be sure.)
 
planet4ever said:
The final warning is turtle mode, but you don't want to go there. If you see the red turtle on your dash, quickly find a safe place to get off the road, and stop. It's time to call 877-NO GAS EV for help.
Ray
Although now you can also call AAA, who will come out and "juice you" with enough to get another 10-12 miles. I wonder how much it costs for non-members, though. :roll:
 
TomT said:
Since the run from my house is all downhill, I have seen as high as 135 on the days when I charge to 100 percent... Of course, coming back home it quickly dropped!
I'll see your 135 and raise you one mile ;) :

leafguessometer0361sf24.jpg


This was at mile 14.5 of a 62 mile trip at a temperature of 24ºF. I can't wait for summer when I can get some really good GoM numbers!

I'm sure others have seen higher numbers, what's the highest reported figure?
 
Aw... the Guess-O-Meter! ALMOST laughable.... if it wasn't so funny, and wouldn't be if you put ANY faith in it.

Two trips within a week of each other shows just another example of how unreliable it is.

Trip A was a 53 mile drive from Highland to Palm Springs via the 330 and I-10. 60-65 MPH all the way arriving with 5 bars and 76 Miles on the GOM (gosh I should be able to make it back to highland without a charge, of course not) I charged to 100% and arrived back in Highland the next day with 2 bars and 14 Miles on the GOM.

Trip B was a 18 mile drive again from Highland up to running springs via the 330. I left with 100 charge and arrived with 5 bars remaining and 31 on the GOM. I didn't mean to, but I charged to 100% and arrive back in Highland with 9 bars and 91 Miles on the GOM. On the Highland Ave exit at the base of the 330 the GOM showed 145!

dgpcolorado: I guess I'll see your 136 and raise you 9 miles ;)
145.jpg
 
nemrut said:
I did an overnight trickle charge and the next day had about 95 miles show as the range for eco-mode. After driving a few miles and going down some hills, the range exceeded 100 and maxed out at 105 before i hit level ground and starting using more juice.

Anyone else experience this. I'm wondering how much more range is possible beyond the 100m indicator.

If you had continued down hill I have no doubts you would have easily gone 105 miles just as the GOM said. Trouble is finding a road that continues downhill for that duration.
It is a range estimator not an odometer in reverse. In ideal conditions and modest speed you can go 100 miles. People do it every day.
 
leafmealone said:
Trip B was a 18 mile drive again from Highland up to running springs via the 330. I left with 100 charge and arrived with 5 bars remaining and 31 on the GOM. I didn't mean to, but I charged to 100% and arrive back in Highland with 9 bars and 91 Miles on the GOM. On the Highland Ave exit at the base of the 330 the GOM showed 145!
I routinely drive down CA-330 from Running Springs to Highland, but have never gone as high as 145 on the GOM. But I've also never charged to 100% before leaving the mountain, or arrived at the bottom with 12 bars. Without regenerative braking, your brake pads must have been quite warm by the time you reached the bottom of that ~5000' descent!

Do you now live in Highland? Or did you stay at a hotel and charge? So far, the only place I've ever charged in Highland is on the 120 V outlets on the rear of the Lowes store. The bottom of 330 would be a perfect place for a Quick Charger, to complement the one (which hasn't been turned on yet) in San Bernardino off of 18. At the Walmart shopping center on Highland Ave., even an L2 would be nice. Starting from there, I just know that I need about seven full bars of charge (~ 65% SOC) to get home at a level close to the "low battery" warning (~ 18% SOC), and that's if I drive slowly (30-35 mph) and use the turnouts. With more charge, driving faster isn't a problem.
 
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