L3 Charging ?

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ht2 said:
May be we can try same thing soon.
Around 500 quick charge stations are planned already.

60 each for 4 EV project city/state(240) + AZ(40) + SF bay area(31) + Houston (50) + Chicago(73) + Baltimore (3)
http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/chargingMap/index#/leaf-electric-car/chargingMap/index

wait a second.... according to this map, 0 DC quick chargers planned for Los Angeles? But 31 for the Bay Area and 60 for San Diego? Doesn't logic tell you you need some in LA if someone wants to get from the Bay Area to San Diego? :?
 
mwalsh said:
Please DO NOT go to Mitsubishi until we've been invited to start using the charger. We do not want to tick anyone off before we even get started. Mitsubishi has told us that the charger is not available to the public yet and we should not go out of the way towards make them change their mind about allowing it's use.

I apologize for jumping the gun here. Gary and I went there today after a small meetup at HTB Cerritos. I hadn't read any of this thread, so I plead ignorance on mwalsh's request to stay away for a while. I do admit to being easily led astray... ;)
Hopefully, these pics will satisfy folks who crave detail so that not many will feel the need to flock there.

I do agree with mwalsh's sentiment on this. If we will be relying on the kindness of our Mitsu friends, we don't want to step on their toes, especially at this sensitive juncture. The good news is that we saw nobody around and so nobody's toes appear to have been scuffed. The facility is in an open parking lot to the rear of the main building with no access control, so we weren't going somewhere we shouldn't.

The Quick Charger was turned off and the nozzle was locked behind a cover. We also looked at the array of Sunny Boy inverters for the (Mitsubishi branded) solar panels and that array also appeared to be turned off.


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Quite a THICK cable

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Gary, hopeful

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Gary, properly respectful

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ChAdeMo, the Holy Grail

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The Mitsubishi iMiev from the LA Auto Show?

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A slightly updated version?

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Single-blade, dual arm wiper detail
 
Nice pics

Now hopefully Nissan will spy on this thread and get the hint that we are all anxious to try out that fancy power port on the LEAF. There should be L3 at all Nissan dealers for us to utilize.
 
I believe the updated version is the one that will be sold in the US.. it was modified to meet DOT standards.. but are we getting the one with the 10kwh Toshiba Sicb battery?
 
malloryk said:
ht2 said:
May be we can try same thing soon.
Around 500 quick charge stations are planned already.

60 each for 4 EV project city/state(240) + AZ(40) + SF bay area(31) + Houston (50) + Chicago(73) + Baltimore (3)
http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/chargingMap/index#/leaf-electric-car/chargingMap/index

wait a second.... according to this map, 0 DC quick chargers planned for Los Angeles? But 31 for the Bay Area and 60 for San Diego? Doesn't logic tell you you need some in LA if someone wants to get from the Bay Area to San Diego? :?

This has always been the problem with the Quick Charge (and even the L2) planning. There is a need for a few Quick Charge stations in LA and in Orange County so that LA people and SD people can go BETWEEN the two cities. There is a MUCH greater need for these few stations, placed strategically, than there is for 60 QC stations IN San Diego. I think that San Diego people would agree with this wholeheartedly.

The same goes for placing a few QC stations between LA and the Bay Area, at perhaps 60 mile increments along I5 or SR 101. There is a much greater need for these before the 100 or so QC stations within the Bay Area and SD.
 
Boomer23 said:
This has always been the problem with the Quick Charge (and even the L2) planning. There is a need for a few Quick Charge stations in LA and in Orange County so that LA people and SD people can go BETWEEN the two cities. There is a MUCH greater need for these few stations, placed strategically, than there is for 60 QC stations IN San Diego. I think that San Diego people would agree with this wholeheartedly.

The same goes for placing a few QC stations between LA and the Bay Area, at perhaps 60 mile increments along I5 or SR 101. There is a much greater need for these before the 100 or so QC stations within the Bay Area and SD.

Agreed,

I do not understand Nissan USA's apparent reluctance to contribute to the development of the public fast charge infrastructure.

Billions of dollars have been invested by Nissan in designing and producing the LEAF. IMO the design and concept is far superior to any of the "plug-in" or ICE "conversions" that will enter the market in the next few years. But there is currently a glaring failure in the LEAF concept to any potential American buyer. Nissan is allowing it's EV competitors to beat it up over "range anxiety" and slower level 2 charge times.

The total cost of a DC fast charger installation is reported to be only $5,000-$25,000, before various subsidies and tax credits. Why Is Nissan not making any effort to promote DC infrastructure development? This is by far the most cost-effective way to increase the range and practically of the Leaf to current (any of you owners even used a DC charger yet?) and future drivers.

EV drivers do not need fast charging at home or at the dealer. They need to be able to get an occasional fast charge on the road BETWEEN destinations.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2374
 
My strong suggestions (but I am not the boss of you):
1. If you visit the site and others are there, STAY in the BACKGROUND. These people are NOT selling LEAFs.
2. If you attend their show on the 9th, to demonstrate support for ALL EVs, park your LEAF across the street, or WAY in the background.
3. We should NEVER get into a "Mine is Bigger/Better than Yours" with ANY of the other EV vendors or even owners. Each EV has its own plus and minus points, but BOTH are helping with the War-on-GAS.
4. For ALL of our benefit, never offend a (potential) charging host, anywhere.
5. If you can't SUPPORT their mission, please STAY AWAY.
 
The overhead arches are covered in solar panels, which are connected to three 5000 watt SMA grid-tie inverters.

There is one L2 station there, and one 120v duplex (5-15/20) socket, apparently on a 20-amp circuit.

A VERY nice facility, and if we show great support for THEIR time-line, rollout plans, and EV efforts, we can win a friend rather than start a fight.

Remember, many of these creatures are humanoids, and they are OFTEN very-easily offended.

----------
GOOD public relations is one of OUR primary missions with our LEAFs.

We did not attend the Laguna Beach dedication to say "Look at my LEAF, not at the Charging Stations", but to show strong support and appreciation for the LB's City Council members and Mayor ... who made this first step happen.

Whenever I am there, I will try to charge a little, if the stations are not both in use, AND leave my cell phone number on the dash, with something like ...
"Please call xxx-xxx-xxxx if you need me to move my EV to charge. I am probably nearby shopping or eating. You may stop my car's charging and unhook my EV if your need is greater than mine."

We want to show the City of LB that their expenditure is being used (not sitting idle), is appreciated, is bringing business to the town, and that we are sharing responsibly.

At least, those are my goals, which you may share, if you wish.
 
garygid said:
My strong suggestions (but I am not the boss of you):
1. If you visit the site and others are there, STAY in the BACKGROUND. These people are NOT selling LEAFs.
2. If you attend their show on the 9th, to demonstrate support for ALL EVs, park your LEAF across the street, or WAY in the background.
3. We should NEVER get into a "Mine is Bigger/Better than Yours" with ANY of the other EV vendors or even owners. Each EV has its own plus and minus points, but BOTH are helping with the War-on-GAS.
4. For ALL of our benefit, never offend a (potential) charging host, anywhere.
5. If you can't SUPPORT their mission, please STAY AWAY.

Though I am currently an EV owner in spirit only, I think this is good advise. :D

I also like the suggestion in your next note..

garygid said:
snip.. snip..

snip...

Whenever I am there, I will try to charge a little, if the stations are not both in use, AND leave my cell phone number on the dash, with something like ...

"Please call xxx-xxx-xxxx if you need me to move my EV to charge. I am probably nearby shopping or eating. You may stop my car's charging and unhook my EV if your need is greater than mine."

snip...
 
Don't take this personal, and I really have no beef with anything you posted on this thread or this site. In fact, you've done a fantastic job promoting the Leaf and EV's in general. Thank you for that, but in regards to your comment...

mwalsh said:
Number one rule of journalism.....if you've got a scoop, run with it.

That is the number one thing I dislike about journalism. I can't tell you who scooped any big news events, pretty much ever. The only people who seem to care about scooping are the journalists themselves. I wish they could come up with some incentive to share information and only release when you have enough verified information before going to press. Not going to happen, so I guess we'll have to live with what we've got, but one can dream.
 
palmermd said:
I wish they could come up with some incentive to share information and only release when you have enough verified information before going to press.

What's to verify? The scoop was that there was a L3 charger going in. Period. Nothing else was promised or inferred in my post except that more information would follow as soon as I reached out to Mitsubishi. It was others who started getting all freaky.
 
mwalsh said:
palmermd said:
I wish they could come up with some incentive to share information and only release when you have enough verified information before going to press.

What's to verify? The scoop was that there was a L3 charger going in. Period. Nothing else was promised or inferred in my post except that more information would follow as soon as I reached out to Mitsubishi. It was others who started getting all freaky.


like I said, my comment had nothing to do with you or your post, but rather a general comment about journalists who think that it is important to "scoop" everyone else. Sorry about straying off topic.

Now when the heck am I going to be able to put some electrons through the $700 plastic hood ornament that I purchased?
 
Agree w/garygid's strong suggestions. Starting a war w/Mitsubishi and/or their owners is a bad idea. That'd give them ammo to restrict/not allow competitor's vehicles from using their station.
Boomer23 said:
The same goes for placing a few QC stations between LA and the Bay Area, at perhaps 60 mile increments along I5 or SR 101. There is a much greater need for these before the 100 or so QC stations within the Bay Area and SD.
(I'm from the SF Bay Area and am moving back there in ~2 weeks. I've driven between LA and San Jose a bunch of times, once back on 101.)
I think I-5 would be a lot more useful since I suspect most people take that route instead of the slower (and more dangerous route) of 101. I agree it would be nice to have what you propose but I do question how many people will actually want to use a pure EV (at least w/the Leaf's current range) for the trip and add so much time to the journey.

Google Maps says SJ ->LA is 340 miles, taking 5 hours, 45 mins. Needing to stop 5 times to L3 charge adds at least 2.5 hours to the trip, assuming the station isn't in use already and operational. There isn't a whole lot to see and do on I-5 between the Bay Area and LA. Much of it is the middle of nowhere.

Also, there'd need to be points before (or after?) certain strategic points like the hilly portions of highway 152 (near the San Luis Reservoir) and the Grapevine area.

It would REALLY suck to encounter one that's out of order and not have enough juice left to reach the next one.
 
1. AND, not have enough juice to reach the Previous one either. What a "pile" of LEAFs that would be!

2. I think Mike did a good, accurate job of letting us know about a big event.

The event, apparently on the 9th, might be by invitation only, so Please do not assume that it is OK to "show up", at least until we learn more.

But, after our Gathering in Cerritos, IF we are invited, and IF the timing works out (the event might be early morning, to be much cooler), THEN we could go, parking a WHOLE "Branch" of LEAFs ... probably across the street to the East of the main parking lot.

IF it happens, should we make a long banner, something like:
"Go, Mitsubishi, Charge!" (or some such)? :D
 
cwerdna said:
It would REALLY suck to encounter one that's out of order and not have enough juice left to reach the next one.
I guess it would be the same as reaching a filling station in an ICE car, finding it out of order, with not enough gas to reach the next one. :) Just goes to show how woefully inadequate our EV charging infrastructure currently is.
 
tps said:
cwerdna said:
It would REALLY suck to encounter one that's out of order and not have enough juice left to reach the next one.
I guess it would be the same as reaching a filling station in an ICE car, finding it out of order, with not enough gas to reach the next one. :) Just goes to show how woefully inadequate our EV charging infrastructure currently is.
True, but ICE cars also typically have MUCH longer ranges than 62-138 miles on a tank and don't take 30 minutes or more to fill. Some publications, prior to the Leaf shipping (it might've been Edmunds) equated EVs to virtually running on empty the whole time.

Edmunds had a Mini E in their long term test fleet and sometimes posted about the range anxiety stories. The Mini E didn't have anything like Carwings to help w/you finding charging stations.
 
cwerdna said:
I think I-5 would be a lot more useful since I suspect most people take that route instead of the slower (and more dangerous route) of 101.
<snip>
There isn't a whole lot to see and do on I-5 between the Bay Area and LA. Much of it is the middle of nowhere.
Which is why I would say, "Neither of the above." The idiots back in Washington didn't seem to understand anything about California when they drew up the interstate system. They built I-5 out in the west side alkali flats where no one lived and little could grow except cotton. Then they downgraded the main artery through the Central Valley from US 99 to CA 99. All of the cities, most of the places to eat and sleep, and nearly all of the interesting places to visit or relax are on 99. It is still a freeway and still the lifeline through much of the 450 mile long Great Valley.

Oh, forgot to mention, not quite true from San Jose, but from San Francisco or anywhere north of 580, it's only 25 miles and half an hour longer to the LA area by 99 than by I-5. So put the DC chargers where they will do the most good for everyone, on 99. If you are one of the half million people living in Fresno, wanting to go to Bakersfield or Stockton, chargers on I-5 are useless. Of course if you live in Kettleman City (pop. 1400) that's a different matter.

Ray
 
cwerdna said:
True, but ICE cars also typically have MUCH longer ranges than 62-138 miles on a tank and don't take 30 minutes or more to fill. Some publications, prior to the Leaf shipping (it might've been Edmunds) equated EVs to virtually running on empty the whole time.

Edmunds had a Mini E in their long term test fleet and sometimes posted about the range anxiety stories. The Mini E didn't have anything like Carwings to help w/you finding charging stations.
MINI E did not have Quick Charge or J1772 capability either. If it had, 32 amp J1772 provides up to 30 miles/hour charging. A 70 amp Tesla J1772 would provide almost 50 miles/hour charging. Because of the lack of a plug standard and infrastructure, BMW discouraged opportunity charging, exacerbating range anxiety by limiting options.
 
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