EV Reserved Parking Spots violators

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mweston said:
Lanzer said:
I experienced the same thing at the EV charging stations in the San Jose convention center.

Problem with what I saw was that there were no signs saying that the spots were reserved for EV's only. (Even though it's pretty obvious to us all)

I doubt that the city will move quick enough to have a law similar to the $240 violation on handicapped parking violation. Probably the most practical approach would be to have private towing companies to act as the penalty for violation. If only Column can add a "violator will be towed" message with each installation...

As long as we can't guarantee ourselves a charging spot we can never drive more than 50 miles to anywhere.
Click to expand...
I went to the San Jose Convention Center lot for the first time yesterday, intending to try out the charging station. Both spots were occupied by ICEs. I did call a number for the parking company to complain, but the best they would promise was to put out warnings on the cars. But thinking back on it, it's really the garage that is at fault since as you say, the spots are not signed to preclude non-EVs.

So I wrote a negative review of the garage on Yelp. Since then a friend gave me the name and number of someone to call, and I'll update back here if that is productive.
Click to expand...
I talked to someone in the transportation department of San Jose yesterday. She was nice, and said that lots more charging options are coming to downtown San Jose later this year. She wasn't really the best person there to talk to, though, so hopefully I'll get a call from that person soon.
 
charlie1300 said:
I would encourage you to copy that post to Tripadvisor.com
Many hotels monitor the site, you might even get a response. We had a problem with a lodging vendor, got no response to multiple direct e-mails to the vendor. Posted a negative review on Trip Advisor, and got an immediate response from Vendor.
Click to expand...
Ooooh, excellent tip! Yelp carries a little weight, but putting the review on sites that the hotel cares about and impacts it's business - positively or negatively - like Tripadvisor.com brings the issue home to something this greedy manager is going to care about! You can also look in the reviews and see if the hotel responds to the reviews as some indication that the site carries more weight with the hotel. I'm not sure about hotels.com, Yahoo travel, Captain Kirk's Priceline, or other sites. If you see that hotel has deals with a certain site, also the site you booked the hotel with if you used one, any high visibility site the hotel cares about epecially if people will see the review during their selection / purchase process. I know if I saw such a review, I would book another hotel!

Who knows, maybe somebody just needs to offer this guy an EV test drive, and let him experience the "EV Grin", he'll mend his ways, and we'll have to post positive reviews!
 
mweston said:
mweston said:
Lanzer said:
I experienced the same thing at the EV charging stations in the San Jose convention center.

Problem with what I saw was that there were no signs saying that the spots were reserved for EV's only. (Even though it's pretty obvious to us all)

I doubt that the city will move quick enough to have a law similar to the $240 violation on handicapped parking violation. Probably the most practical approach would be to have private towing companies to act as the penalty for violation. If only Column can add a "violator will be towed" message with each installation...

As long as we can't guarantee ourselves a charging spot we can never drive more than 50 miles to anywhere.
Click to expand...
I went to the San Jose Convention Center lot for the first time yesterday, intending to try out the charging station. Both spots were occupied by ICEs. I did call a number for the parking company to complain, but the best they would promise was to put out warnings on the cars. But thinking back on it, it's really the garage that is at fault since as you say, the spots are not signed to preclude non-EVs.

So I wrote a negative review of the garage on Yelp. Since then a friend gave me the name and number of someone to call, and I'll update back here if that is productive.
Click to expand...
I talked to someone in the transportation department of San Jose yesterday. She was nice, and said that lots more charging options are coming to downtown San Jose later this year. She wasn't really the best person there to talk to, though, so hopefully I'll get a call from that person soon.
Click to expand...
You can bet they do more to a car illegally parked in an ADA space! They have wide latitude in how they set their policies and they can put up enforceable signage with towing provisions to enforce that policy, it's not that they can't enforce, it is that they WILLINGLY have a POLICY TO NOT ENFORCE IT! Or haven't bothered to add a policy enforcing it, but as a garage operator, they know everyday that if they don't enforce and tow cars parked in no park zones, like yellow striped areas, a few people will always be parked there. They know form experience that they have to enforce parking restrictions or they are relatively meaningless. Guaranteed a car parked blocking the main aisle or one of the ticket entrances will get towed within the hour!! I'm sure they wouldn't leave it there and just put a Warning on it!!! :eek: :shock:
 
Done. Thanks for the tip.

I would encourage you to copy that post to Tripadvisor.com
Many hotels monitor the site, you might even get a response. We had a problem with a lodging vendor, got no response to multiple direct e-mails to the vendor. Posted a negative review on Trip Advisor, and got an immediate response from Vendor.
Click to expand...
 
Ok, here's my edits of the previous posted "ticket":

Courtesy Notice - Parking Violation

This vehicle is parked blocking an Electric Vehicle Recharging Station.

This parking space is designated for Electric Vehicles Only.

This is not a regular parking space for the convenience of all vehicle drivers -- it is an Electric Vehicle Recharging Station. Parking in a way that prevents use of the Recharging Station is not only illegal, it can leave an Electric Vehicle driver stranded. I'm sure you enjoy not finding gasoline refueling stations blocked with non-gasoline powered cars, either !!!

Under California Vehicle Code section 22511, vehicles parked in spaces reserved for electric vehicles are subject to fines up to $100 (I couldn't find this in the code) and may be towed away at the owner's expense. We prefer to avoid taking such action unless absolutely necessary.

Notifying the police or sheriff's department may cause the removal of a vehicle from a stall or space designated for electric vehicles to the nearest impound garage if a valid Electric Vehicle "Zero Emission Vehicle" decal identification issued pursuant to DMV rules is not displayed on the vehicle.

Per DMV rules, "zero-emission vehicle" means any car, truck, or any other vehicle that produces no tailpipe or evaporative emissions.
 
GaslessInSeattle said:
I wish I had a business card size notice or something like what you guys can use for CA to let folks know they did inconvenience someone and that they can be towed.
Click to expand...

How about:

"You are parked in a refueling space for Electric Vehicles. In the interest of fairness, please let me know where you gas up your car, so that I may park my auto in front of your gas pump and leave it there the next time you need gas."
 
SteveInSeattle said:
It needs to be reported-- the parkign areas that have installed the expensive infrastructure for charging need to take action to see that the investmetn isn't wasted.
Click to expand...

I say pee in their fuel tank, and stick a potato up their exhaust :)

Seriously though, enforcement should be the same as with disabled parking spots.
 
JPWhite said:
Seriously though, enforcement should be the same as with disabled parking spots.
Click to expand...
Then arguably we need a specific parking pass, like with disabled/handicapped parking permits. It's not really fair to require those who manage parking lots to be familiar with what every single EV out there is.

If there's a Mini Cooper parked in an EV space, is that really a car ICE'ing it, or is that an electric conversion of a Cooper? Do you rely on the car saying 'Electric' somewhere on it? (Then LEAF owners have to be sure to buy and add 'Electric' to their car!) Do you just rely on 'does the car have a tailpipe' as your determining factor? Then does a Volt qualify? They /can/ charge, after all. And what about PHEVs, like the Prius plug-in hybrid? And in any of those cases, if you guess wrong someone is going to complain! Either you wrongly towed their car, or you didn't enforce the parking, and either way they're all angry now.

With handicapped parking, requiring the individual to go through the process of getting a handicapped license plate or placard makes life easier for enforcement. They don't have to go look for hints that a given car is a handicapped one, just look at the license plate or look for the placard hanging off the rear view mirror. If we want EV parking to be enforced the same way, we'll need to have a similar process for people to go through in order to get an EV plate or whatever.

(Mind you, I'm in favor of EV plates ANYWAY. People complain that we're not paying towards road upkeep through gas taxes even though we drive on the road, and they have something of a valid point. Having an EV-specific plate would allow states to draw money from us in one big 'chunk' to help pay for road upkeep whenever we renew the tabs for that plate, AND would provide an easy way to enforce EV-only parking spots just like handicapped parking.)
 
Packet said:
JPWhite said:
Seriously though, enforcement should be the same as with disabled parking spots.
Click to expand...
Then arguably we need a specific parking pass, like with disabled/handicapped parking permits. It's not really fair to require those who manage parking lots to be familiar with what every single EV out there is.

If there's a Mini Cooper parked in an EV space, is that really a car ICE'ing it, or is that an electric conversion of a Cooper? Do you rely on the car saying 'Electric' somewhere on it? (Then LEAF owners have to be sure to buy and add 'Electric' to their car!) Do you just rely on 'does the car have a tailpipe' as your determining factor? Then does a Volt qualify? They /can/ charge, after all. And what about PHEVs, like the Prius plug-in hybrid? And in any of those cases, if you guess wrong someone is going to complain! Either you wrongly towed their car, or you didn't enforce the parking, and either way they're all angry now.

With handicapped parking, requiring the individual to go through the process of getting a handicapped license plate or placard makes life easier for enforcement. They don't have to go look for hints that a given car is a handicapped one, just look at the license plate or look for the placard hanging off the rear view mirror. If we want EV parking to be enforced the same way, we'll need to have a similar process for people to go through in order to get an EV plate or whatever.

(Mind you, I'm in favor of EV plates ANYWAY. People complain that we're not paying towards road upkeep through gas taxes even though we drive on the road, and they have something of a valid point. Having an EV-specific plate would allow states to draw money from us in one big 'chunk' to help pay for road upkeep whenever we renew the tabs for that plate, AND would provide an easy way to enforce EV-only parking spots just like handicapped parking.)
Click to expand...

The state issues an EV sticker for a small fee.
that should be the standard. It is why it is there.
 
Signage is not yet sufficient in most places to eliminate anything except perhaps a full-on ICE vehicle.

Is the spot for:
1. Parking without charging,
2. Charging only (with a 10-minute window to move the car when charging is complete),
3. Parking and/or Charging?

Is a plug-in hybrid (that can run fine on gas) really an EV for purposes of using these "EV" parking/charging spots?

I suspect that the plug-in hybrids will vastly outnumber the pure EVs for most of the next many years. So, I expect these PHEVs will clog the EV-Charging (and Parking) spaces for many years, helping to keep the EV from becoming a real success.

I expect Home Charging and QC to be the most important parts of the future (actually useful) infrastructure.
 
thankyouOB said:
The state issues an EV sticker for a small fee.
that should be the standard. It is why it is there.
Click to expand...
True in California. You might notice that Packet is in Seattle.
garygid said:
Is a plug-in hybrid (that can run fine on gas) really an EV for purposes of using these "EV" parking/charging spots?
Click to expand...
I don't believe they qualify for the CA EV parking sticker, assuming that becomes the criteria.
 
This is one of many FREE EV charging stations in Oslo, Norway. There is 230V 16A (3.6 kW) for two cars in each of the metal poles. The electricity and the parking is free, compliments of the city council.

trekanttomta-bredde.jpg



There are about 400 free charging stations in Oslo (pop.: 500000), in addition to all the private ones. Electricity is always free. Cars are recognized as electric because the license plate starts with "EL xxxxx".
 
Packet said:
JPWhite said:
Seriously though, enforcement should be the same as with disabled parking spots.
Click to expand...
Then arguably we need a specific parking pass, like with disabled/handicapped parking permits. It's not really fair to require those who manage parking lots to be familiar with what every single EV out there is.

If there's a Mini Cooper parked in an EV space, is that really a car ICE'ing it, or is that an electric conversion of a Cooper? Do you rely on the car saying 'Electric' somewhere on it? (Then LEAF owners have to be sure to buy and add 'Electric' to their car!) Do you just rely on 'does the car have a tailpipe' as your determining factor? Then does a Volt qualify? They /can/ charge, after all. And what about PHEVs, like the Prius plug-in hybrid? And in any of those cases, if you guess wrong someone is going to complain! Either you wrongly towed their car, or you didn't enforce the parking, and either way they're all angry now.

With handicapped parking, requiring the individual to go through the process of getting a handicapped license plate or placard makes life easier for enforcement. They don't have to go look for hints that a given car is a handicapped one, just look at the license plate or look for the placard hanging off the rear view mirror. If we want EV parking to be enforced the same way, we'll need to have a similar process for people to go through in order to get an EV plate or whatever.

(Mind you, I'm in favor of EV plates ANYWAY. People complain that we're not paying towards road upkeep through gas taxes even though we drive on the road, and they have something of a valid point. Having an EV-specific plate would allow states to draw money from us in one big 'chunk' to help pay for road upkeep whenever we renew the tabs for that plate, AND would provide an easy way to enforce EV-only parking spots just like handicapped parking.)
Click to expand...

In Tennessee one can apply for a SmartPASS decal to allow passage on an HOV lane. The decal could serve two purposes and make it obvious that it's an EV. Other states have similar programs I believe.

A dead givaway is the electric cord running from the charger to the vehicle in the charging spot. Not sure even an EV should be able to park in a designated space unless they charge up. the spaces should be kept open to allow others to charge, not to give EV owners a premium parking space.
 
JPWhite said:
A dead givaway is the electric cord running from the charger to the vehicle in the charging spot. Not sure even an EV should be able to park in a designated space unless they charge up. the spaces should be kept open to allow others to charge, not to give EV owners a premium parking space.
Click to expand...
You'd think that, wouldn't you. But some EV conversions will just be snaking the cord into their trunk or under the hood. A sticker or license plate can be checked by enforcement while just driving by...looking for the cord requires more careful inspection.
 
davewill said:
thankyouOB said:
The state issues an EV sticker for a small fee.
that should be the standard. It is why it is there.
Click to expand...
True in California. You might notice that Packet is in Seattle.
Click to expand...
Plus, consider the bigger picture as 'electric highways' get done and our range expands.

Let's say you leave it up to the county. So, here in the Seattle area, maybe King County sets up one type of pass, and Snohomish sets up another. Now, maybe I drive up a little ways on I-5 and end up in Snohomish. Do the Snohomish folks have to be trained to recognize both King County EV parking passes and Snohomish County ones? Even if you make it state-wide, what about if I drive down to Portland? Are the folks in Portland expected to recognize Seattle's parking passes?

Handicapped plates are fairly universal. If you have plates that have that internationally recognized wheelchair symbol on them, you have handicapped plates. Drive your car with Washington handicapped plates from Seattle down to Portland to visit friends, and you probably aren't going to get towed if you park in an handicapped spot.

This may be less of a concern right now when we're fairly range-limited, but I'd hope that's not always the case. The ideal would be to have a universal EV symbol which can signify the car in a way which parking enforcement can easily recognize, rather than relying solely on local passes. Especially since not everywhere /has/ any such local pass to begin with; Seattle, as you might guess from my posts, does not.
 
Since you can't ever supply enough of a free good the only way to deal with this is to charge. A vehicle parked in an EV spot (1) has to be plugged in and (2) has to pay for the charge. If you set the charge at above the expected price per kWh in the area you'll ensure only those vehicles that actually need a charge use it.

This cuts against the grain of the sense of entitlement often exhibited by EV owners, and it's not a reward system for owning an EV, but it's the cheapest, easiest, and best solution for ensuring that only those people who need a charge get a charge.
 
What's missing is a business model that encourages installation of Public Opportunity Charging. The answer is Pay-to-Park charge sites. A parking meter with an outlet where you can stay as long as you can afford to. Until that happens, expect the public EVSE drought to continue.
 
Norway said:
This is one of many FREE EV charging stations in Oslo, Norway. There is 230V 16A (3.6 kW) for two cars in each of the metal poles. The electricity and the parking is free, compliments of the city council.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure posting explicit pornography like this is against the law...





;)
 

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