SageBrush
Posts: 4040
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Sun May 19, 2019 6:39 pm

lorenfb wrote:
SageBrush wrote:The 62 kWh model is improved in terms of rapid-gate


That's yet to be determined, i.e. basically no data exists compared to the 40 kWh except anecdotal - especially via LeafSpy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c5LykE4J28

Bjorn reported on the e-NV200 Nissan which so far as I know has the same cooling during charging now put in the 62 kWh LEAF. The battery stayed at 40C during 25 kW charging.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Posts: 4040
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Sun May 19, 2019 6:42 pm

lorenfb wrote:
SageBrush wrote:How about this mod to the method:

Using LeafSpy, ~ same SoC
1. Measure i and V at home (L2 charging at 32 Amps) when the numbers are stable
2. Measure i and V at a DC fast charger when the numbers are stable
Calculate d(V)/d(i)

EA says that a DCFC is coming 'soon' to my city so that would give me another reason to try it out. ;-)
The DCFC is a gentle downhill from my home so the battery temp should change very little


Yes, but you need a step function change in current with basically a short rise time in the current (di/dt very low),
i.e. a no load to full load is ideal as in a vehicle launch mode.

I presume you mean a high di/dt.

Why is that preferred ? Is this an impedance Vs resistance thing ?
If so, does the battery have anything other than resistors ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

lorenfb
Posts: 2189
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Sun May 19, 2019 7:30 pm

SageBrush wrote:
lorenfb wrote:
SageBrush wrote:How about this mod to the method:

Using LeafSpy, ~ same SoC
1. Measure i and V at home (L2 charging at 32 Amps) when the numbers are stable
2. Measure i and V at a DC fast charger when the numbers are stable
Calculate d(V)/d(i)

EA says that a DCFC is coming 'soon' to my city so that would give me another reason to try it out. ;-)
The DCFC is a gentle downhill from my home so the battery temp should change very little


Yes, but you need a step function change in current with basically a short rise time in the current (di/dt very low),
i.e. a no load to full load is ideal as in a vehicle launch mode.

I presume you mean a high di/dt.

Why is that preferred ? Is this an impedance Vs resistance thing ?
If so, does the battery have anything other than resistors ?


Yes, my typo, SB high. The fast rise time of the current prevents the battery from heating up and thus distorting the measurement
based on the initial temperature reading. Yes, there're other elements, but for all practical purposes the other elements (reactive)
can be neglected.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F (35C), min discharge (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 25%, temp < 105F

lorenfb
Posts: 2189
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Sun May 19, 2019 7:40 pm

SageBrush wrote:Bjorn reported on the e-NV200 Nissan which so far as I know has the same cooling during charging now put in the 62 kWh LEAF. The battery stayed at 40C during 25 kW charging.


So you're implying that the Leaf Plus has active cooling (TMS) while charging based on what is said in the video?
I watched the video and nowhere does he say that both the NV200 & the Plus have active cooling.
The active cooling on the NV200 only functions while charging and with the vehicle turned-on. So one still
has the problematic heating occurring at higher speeds with NV200 as with Plus.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F (35C), min discharge (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 25%, temp < 105F

SageBrush
Posts: 4040
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Mon May 20, 2019 1:31 am

lorenfb wrote:The active cooling on the NV200 only functions while charging and with the vehicle turned-on. So one still
has the problematic heating occurring at higher speeds with NV200 as with Plus.

Right, and the active cooling itself is pretty puny and I'll guess quite inefficient.
It is an improvement over nothing at all, or the software patch approved for Europe that increases the allowable temperature in the 40 kWh model.. A hack, if you will.

I watched the video and nowhere does he say that both the NV200 & the Plus have active cooling.

The NV200 (and Bjorn's video) predate the LEAF+. I've subsequently read from multiple other sources that the LEAF+ incorporates this solution. I'm too lazy to dig them up.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

lorenfb
Posts: 2189
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Mon May 20, 2019 2:30 am

SageBrush wrote:
lorenfb wrote:The active cooling on the NV200 only functions while charging and with the vehicle turned-on. So one still
has the problematic heating occurring at higher speeds with NV200 as with Plus.

Right, and the active cooling itself is pretty puny and I'll guess quite inefficient.
It is an improvement over nothing at all, or the software patch approved for Europe that increases the allowable temperature in the 40 kWh model.. A hack, if you will..


Probably because of lower average ambient temperatures there.

SageBrush wrote:[
I watched the video and nowhere does he say that both the NV200 & the Plus have active cooling.

The NV200 (and Bjorn's video) predate the LEAF+. I've subsequently read from multiple other sources that the LEAF+ incorporates this solution. I'm too lazy to dig them up.


Interesting. Try & find the references.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F (35C), min discharge (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 25%, temp < 105F

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 11967
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Mon May 20, 2019 2:43 am

Nissan has explicitly denied using any active air cooling in the ePlus. No, I didn't save the reference, either.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 4040
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Mon May 20, 2019 3:35 am

^^
Lorenfb,
Google is your friend.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

lorenfb
Posts: 2189
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Mon May 20, 2019 8:31 am

#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F (35C), min discharge (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 25%, temp < 105F

metricus
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 1:51 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Apr 2019
Leaf Number: 307046
Location: Reading, PA

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Mon May 20, 2019 8:50 am

SageBrush wrote:Look at 04:30 into the video for examples of battery temperature rise during charging at different charging rates and ambient temperatures. It looks like an easy screen: much over 0.35 C/% during a moderate temperature day in your car would suggest something is amiss in your car.


First things first: I ordered an LELink#2 (apparently a newer version??).

Judging by ByornTesla's graph quoted above I frankly don't think I am on the blue graph. I realize that these instruments have a certain hysteresis curve but I never saw a charge at over 35 kW in a long time although the gauge was in the middle (26C).

We'll see.... I'll pop in the dongle when it arrives and report back.

Return to “Batteries & Charging”