smkettner
Posts: 7373
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Level 2 Charging at Home Help

Wed May 15, 2019 1:49 pm

Why go wild on the outlet and then go minimum on the EVSE?
Get matching equipment.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

jjeff
Posts: 1898
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Level 2 Charging at Home Help

Wed May 15, 2019 4:05 pm

Personally I'd look into something like these:
https://www.amazon.com/Primecom-Electri ... spons&th=1 Similar to my 30a Zencar EVSE which I've been using for years.

I kind of like this model because it looks like it has a +/- for output amperage adjustments.
https://www.amazon.com/BougeRV-Charger- ... 88&sr=1-28
If you're talking about future proofing or even the ability to charge 2 EVs at once possibly sharing the same circuit, you'll really want a EVSE where you can dial down the charging rate. Many(and all Clipper Creek models) EVSEs don't let you limit the charging current, they always charge at the max(unless your car can't accept the max) so if your charging 2 EVs and they can both draw up to say 30a, you'll need a 60a+ circuit :o
Better to just dial down the charging current to say 20a each in which case it would be fine on a 50a circuit.
I would NOT get the EVSE you linked first, as others have said it maxes out at 16a in which case you'd just as well go with a simple 20a outlet and not bother with a high power outlet.
If you want a more name-brand EVSE Juicebox makes excellently adjustable EVSEs and are decently priced and JBs are now UL listed, for those that care about that(I'm not one of them). I believe the Juicebox site is cheaper than off Amazon, I also have a Juicebox but it's a pretty old model(my first L2 EVSE) purchased back in '14.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

metricus
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 1:51 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Apr 2019
Leaf Number: 307046
Location: Reading, PA

Re: Level 2 Charging at Home Help

Wed May 15, 2019 6:45 pm

LeafSL14 wrote:
3. Can too much AMPs destroy anything or should the charger be able to control that?

4. Is a DC Quick charge something that could be installed in a home? Not needed, but just curious because I can't find much on it.


The outlet is going to be installed about a foot away from the breaker, so I figured I should future proof this since it shouldn't be much of a difference in cost, but let me know what you think. The house is newer and built last year. Images below

Thanks in advance!
3. You need to understand the physics of it: an electric device draws as many amperes as its designed to use. Think of a long jump athlete: he jumps as much as he can and making a bigger sand pit will not make the athlete jump further. On the other hand if the pit is too small he will land on hard ground and break his ankle.
So if your charger draws 27 amps, installing a smaller breaker will cause it to trip. If the braker is bigger nothing will happen.
EXCEPT: if you install a 50A breaker and something goes wrong with your device designed for 27A the breaker will not protect it and you may damage your device or even cause a fire. Remember that all wires INSIDE the charger are sized to 30A.

it is always a good idea to design the circuit EXACTLY for what it will do. My circuit uses 40A wire to comply with code but I installed 30A breaker such that it trips faster if the current exceeds 27A.

If your charger is so close to the breaker panel upgrading to a 50 A circuit will not be an issue in the future. i would advise against installing this charger on a 50A breaker.

4. DC charging is nearly impossible to install in a regular home due to the large power requirement. To supply 50 kW you need a 200A circuit at 240V which is all that your service can provide meaning that you cannot use anything in the house while charging. No inspector would allow you to do this. It is prohibitive in price (40K$) and you should not QC your leaf on a regular basis. So don't even think of it.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Re: Level 2 Charging at Home Help

Wed May 15, 2019 6:51 pm

Metricus, your use of the term "charger" isn't accurate. The charger is built into the car, and the device that feeds it power is called, variously, an "EVSE," "charging cable" or "charging station" if wall mounted. It is little more than a smart power cord.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

RonDawg
Posts: 3039
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: Level 2 Charging at Home Help

Thu May 16, 2019 12:40 am

smkettner wrote:
RonDawg wrote:
smkettner wrote:OP mentioned future proof.

I agree a 30 amp circuit with a hardwired ClipperCreek LCS-30 charging at 24 amps should serve the OP fine even if OP upgrades to a 300+ mile vehicle in the future.
But what if the OP gets two EV's, or an EV and a PHEV?

It doesn't cost that much more to wire a 50 amp circuit up front (assuming the capacity exists), and a lot more to have to re-do it if the OP desires a higher capacity in the future.
So add a second LCS-30 on its own circuit. Not rocket science here.
Really does not matter.... until it does. Will 2x 50 amp circuits be allowed on that panel?
But why go through the expense of adding a second circuit when he can already make the first circuit large enough to charge two EV’s at 20 amps each if necessary?

Fortunately the OP saw it my (and others’) way and is going to go with a 50 amp circuit ;)
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

GerryAZ
Gold Member
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Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Level 2 Charging at Home Help

Thu May 16, 2019 1:16 am

The NEMA 14-50 receptacle with 50-ampere breaker is a great choice because it is a common type used with RVs as well as for EVSEs. The Clipper Creek HCS-50P is available with either the 6-50 plug (common for welders) or 14-50 plug (common for RVs) if you want a high-quality, name brand unit that will allow a car to charge at up to 40 amperes. I have one at my workshop/garage unit which I bought 3 years ago. If you order one, make sure you specify the 14-50 plug. Also, you might want to have whatever EVSE you decide to purchase on hand before having the receptacle installed. EVSEs that comply with national codes and standards have a very short supply cord so you need to determine the mounting location for the EVSE and then have the receptacle installed within reach of that short supply cord.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL+ purchased 8/10/2019

LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Level 2 Charging at Home Help

Thu May 16, 2019 3:10 am

Fortunately the OP saw it my (and others’) way and is going to go with a 50 amp circuit
And if he had gone with a 16A EVSE as he was considering doing, that would have been a dangerous combination. Kudos.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

smkettner
Posts: 7373
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Level 2 Charging at Home Help

Thu May 16, 2019 8:17 am

RonDawg wrote:But why go through the expense of adding a second circuit when he can already make the first circuit large enough to charge two EV’s at 20 amps each if necessary?

Fortunately the OP saw it my (and others’) way and is going to go with a 50 amp circuit ;)
What crazy adapter you using to plug two evse into a single NEMA 14-50? Or do you add a subpanel? Good grief.

What if the other vehicle connects in the rear such as Tesla? Do you pull wire to the point of need or do you drape the cord across the path where you walk?

I still recommend any 240v circuit should be sized to the load. Then you can't just plug in a second evse unless it has two cables and load sharing. Maybe that is what OP needs "just in case".
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

LurchOR
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:42 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Jan 2019

Re: Level 2 Charging at Home Help

Thu May 16, 2019 9:40 am

metricus wrote:
LeafSL14 wrote:
3. Can too much AMPs destroy anything or should the charger be able to control that?
EXCEPT: if you install a 50A breaker and something goes wrong with your device designed for 27A the breaker will not protect it and you may damage your device or even cause a fire. Remember that all wires INSIDE the charger are sized to 30A.

it is always a good idea to design the circuit EXACTLY for what it will do. My circuit uses 40A wire to comply with code but I installed 30A breaker such that it trips faster if the current exceeds 27A.
Uh, you seem quite concerned with matching breaker size to load. Tell me, have you swapped out many (or any) of your 15A/20A house hold breakers because they only have lamps or cell phone chargers that draw 10% to 15% - or less - of breaker capacity?
I personally would not be concerned about using a device drawing 15-30 amps on a 50 amp circuit. My own EVSE draws about 28 amps off my 14-50R circuit, so I have placed my own safety in this opinion.
I think the quality and safety of the EVSE is much more important than matching breaker size when it comes to fire prevention.
Mystic Silver 2015 SL

jjeff
Posts: 1898
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Level 2 Charging at Home Help

Fri May 17, 2019 4:03 pm

smkettner wrote:
RonDawg wrote:But why go through the expense of adding a second circuit when he can already make the first circuit large enough to charge two EV’s at 20 amps each if necessary?

Fortunately the OP saw it my (and others’) way and is going to go with a 50 amp circuit ;)
What crazy adapter you using to plug two evse into a single NEMA 14-50? Or do you add a subpanel? Good grief.
I built my own as it was cheaper than purchasing one made but this:
https://www.amazon.com/RV-Female-Lighte ... 43&sr=8-37
I regularly charge our 2 Leafs using such an adapter, as long as my total load is no more than about 40a it works just fine :)
As my '12 maxes out at 16a that leaves 24a for my '13.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

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