SageBrush
Posts: 4093
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Tue May 07, 2019 9:03 am

OrientExpress wrote:The bottom line is that the battery does not seem to have any heat sensitivity or build up.

I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

lorenfb
Posts: 2192
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Tue May 07, 2019 9:04 am

OrientExpress wrote:I am in the process of putting up a story on a 500 mile trip I took in a LEAF Plus from San Jost to Tahoe and back, and will post the link when it is done. I also charged it using the EVGo 85kW (100 peak) chargers.

The bottom line is that the battery does not seem to have any heat sensitivity or build up. Once the battery warms up to the mid-point on the temperature gauge, it stays there, even after running the car hard, then quick charging. On average with the faster chargers on shared sources the car would charge at about 58 kW and on the 50 kW chargers would charge at about 45 kW.

Image

This photo is after a 85kW (57kW) charge session, and previous to that lots of very fast freeway driving.


Based on my use of LeafSpy and the temp bar displayed, that temp is about 105 -110F, temp delta over ambient 35-40F.
Last edited by lorenfb on Tue May 07, 2019 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F (35C), min discharge (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 25%, temp < 105F

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OrientExpress
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Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
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Leaf Number: 2331
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Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Tue May 07, 2019 9:07 am

lorenfb wrote:Based on my use of LeafSpy and the temp bar displayed, that temp is about 105 -110F.


That's probably reasonable. Mid point is usually about 85F? But what is for sure the operational heat characteristics for the 2019 62kWh battery are very different from the 2018 40kWh battery.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

HerdingElectrons
Posts: 103
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:20 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Central Coast, Ca

Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Tue May 07, 2019 9:11 am

lorenfb wrote:After a 30 minute QC (avg power 30 kW) on my 2019 40 kWh Leaf, the battery temp reached 100F, ambient of 75F. After driving for about 45 minutes at 35 - 40, the battery temp was at 80F. So based on that QC and driving at speeds greater than 50 -55 while
monitoring the Leaf's battery temp, my view is to only have one QC per day (or at best none), and limit my speed. My experience
is that any speeds greater than 50-55 for lengthy periods results in undesirable battery temps
.


What's your definition of lengthy?
2018 SL Pearl White 4.5/3.7 Warm/Cold weather

09/2018 @ 1,000 miles: AHr= 114.52 / SOH= 99.20 / HX= 099.70% / 14mV cell delta
04/2019 @ 10,500 miles: Ahr= 111.45 / SOH= 96.54 / HX= 113.82% / 05mV cell delta

lorenfb
Posts: 2192
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Tue May 07, 2019 9:12 am

OrientExpress wrote:
lorenfb wrote:Based on my use of LeafSpy and the temp bar displayed, that temp is about 105 -110F.


That's probably reasonable. Mid point is usually about 85F? But what is for sure the operational heat characteristics for the 2019 62kWh battery are very different from the 2018 40kWh battery.


So your implication is that the 62 kWh Leaf battery can sustain higher battery temps without affecting battery degradation, right?
Luckily my 2013 Leaf's battery never reached temps that exceeded 95F, or its degradation probably would be worse than it is.
Last edited by lorenfb on Tue May 07, 2019 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F (35C), min discharge (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 25%, temp < 105F

lorenfb
Posts: 2192
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Tue May 07, 2019 9:17 am

HerdingElectrons wrote:
lorenfb wrote:After a 30 minute QC (avg power 30 kW) on my 2019 40 kWh Leaf, the battery temp reached 100F, ambient of 75F. After driving for about 45 minutes at 35 - 40, the battery temp was at 80F. So based on that QC and driving at speeds greater than 50 -55 while
monitoring the Leaf's battery temp, my view is to only have one QC per day (or at best none), and limit my speed. My experience
is that any speeds greater than 50-55 for lengthy periods results in undesirable battery temps
.


What's your definition of lengthy?


Based on my experience with 40 kWh Leaf's battery, 45 minutes to and hour. Use LeafSpy and do a test yourself, i.e. drive at
70-75 for a hour and then check the battery temp with LeafSpy.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F (35C), min discharge (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 25%, temp < 105F

WetEV
Posts: 2883
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Tue May 07, 2019 9:36 am

OrientExpress wrote:
WetEV wrote:What was the actual battery temperature?.


It was in the middle of the acceptable heat range for the 62 kWh battery.


What is the "middle of the acceptable heat range for the 62 kWh battery" in degrees C?
WetEV
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Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

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OrientExpress
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Leaf Number: 2331
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Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Tue May 07, 2019 9:43 am

lorenfb wrote:So your implication is that the 62 kWh Leaf battery can sustain higher battery temps without affecting battery degradation, right?


There are certainly different operational characteristics of both the '18 40 kWh and '19 62 kWh battery from the batteries from earlier years. I would be cautious of applying the accepted behavior and consequences of those earlier batteries to these newer batteries until there is enough experience with the newer batteries to contrast and compare.

What I'm interested to see if the heating of the 2018 40 kWh batteries also apply to the 2019 40 kWh batteries.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

User avatar
OrientExpress
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Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
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Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Tue May 07, 2019 9:47 am

WetEV wrote:What is the "middle of the acceptable heat range for the 62 kWh battery" in degrees C?


From here to here:

Image

Not too hot, and not too cold.
Last edited by OrientExpress on Tue May 07, 2019 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

SageBrush
Posts: 4093
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Tue May 07, 2019 11:43 am

OrientExpress wrote:
WetEV wrote:What is the "middle of the acceptable heat range for the 62 kWh battery" in degrees C?


From here to here:

:lol: :lol:
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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