User avatar
OrientExpress
Forum Supporter
Posts: 1469
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Wed May 08, 2019 7:59 am

I'm getting a 2019 40kWh LEAF on the 20th to see how it compares to an early 2018 version. There is a 50kW charger a block from my house, and another one about 30 miles away, so the plan is to drive the 2019 at freeway speeds between the two chargers a few times with charging sessions in-between to see if the battery temperature profile is any different from the early version. My hope is that the '19 40kWh version mimics the 62kWh's performance.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

lorenfb
Posts: 2218
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Wed May 08, 2019 10:46 am

HerdingElectrons wrote:The 62kwh has 57% more usable capacity so it handles high speed loads much better due to the lower per cell C rate due to the extra number of cells even when the heavier pack is factored in because maintaining highway speed makes that extra weight less of a factor.


Agreed, but that assumes that the Plus internal resistance has decreased over the 40 kWh, which is unknown. That resistance value
can be determined using LeafSpy. Last year a test was done that indicated that the 40 kWh Leaf had similar battery resistance to
to the 24 kWh Leaf.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F (35C), min discharge (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 25%, temp < 105F

joelq
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:24 am
Delivery Date: 23 Jun 2019

Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:34 am

OrientExpress wrote:I'm getting a 2019 40kWh LEAF on the 20th to see how it compares to an early 2018 version. There is a 50kW charger a block from my house, and another one about 30 miles away, so the plan is to drive the 2019 at freeway speeds between the two chargers a few times with charging sessions in-between to see if the battery temperature profile is any different from the early version. My hope is that the '19 40kWh version mimics the 62kWh's performance.



Very interested to see if you’ve managed to do this test yet? I’m considering getting a 2019 Leaf (non-Plus) and though it’ll be mostly a commuter/within city car, I’m curious to see if the 2019 40kWh battery behaves differently from that of the 2018s. Saw one mention somewhere that the battery chemistry changed in the 2019 40kWh, but can’t find any other references.

Any updates?

User avatar
OrientExpress
Forum Supporter
Posts: 1469
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:34 am

2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

joelq
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:24 am
Delivery Date: 23 Jun 2019

Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:06 am



Yep, that’s it - that’s where I read that the battery chemistry changed in the 2019 40KwH Leafs. Just curious if you were able to confirm in your testing that it handles heat build up better than the 2018s?

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 12191
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:25 am

joelq wrote:


Yep, that’s it - that’s where I read that the battery chemistry changed in the 2019 40KwH Leafs. Just curious if you were able to confirm in your testing that it handles heat build up better than the 2018s?


They aren't saying that the battery chemistry changed in 2019. They are saying it changed in 2018 and was carried over to 2019. I wouldn't take what they right as gospel truth, though (or maybe I would, since the gospels are largely fiction).

The battery was also much more powerful than previous versions with output power now at 110kW vs. 80kW in the earlier cars.


That's the output of the inverter-motor portion of the drivetrain, not the battery.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

joelq
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:24 am
Delivery Date: 23 Jun 2019

Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:19 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
joelq wrote:


Yep, that’s it - that’s where I read that the battery chemistry changed in the 2019 40KwH Leafs. Just curious if you were able to confirm in your testing that it handles heat build up better than the 2018s?


They aren't saying that the battery chemistry changed in 2019. They are saying it changed in 2018 and was carried over to 2019. I wouldn't take what they right as gospel truth, though (or maybe I would, since the gospels are largely fiction).

The battery was also much more powerful than previous versions with output power now at 110kW vs. 80kW in the earlier cars.


That's the output of the inverter-motor portion of the drivetrain, not the battery.



In 2018, the big news for the LEAF was a new battery pack with a capacity of 40 kWh (the real value was around 39.5 kWh, and only 37 or less was available). The battery was also much more powerful than previous versions with output power now at 110kW vs. 80kW in the earlier cars.

That extra power carried over to 2019 unchanged, with the new battery chemistry, structure, and module layout. Earlier versions of the LEAFs battery used a Lithium Manganese Oxide cathode material in a Spinel structure. The new 40 kWh battery uses a Lithium Nickel Cobalt Manganese Oxide cathode in a layered structure. The battery still has 192 cells, but the module layout of the 40kWh battery is new with 24 modules of 8 cells each vs. 48 modules of 4 cells each in the older 24 and 30 kWh batteries.


Gotcha, makes sense. The above quote is what I found ambiguous in the article. The bolded phrase in the second paragraph led me to believe there was a new 40 kWh coming in 2019, but I guess they're referring to the new 40 kWh battery that came in 2018.

lorenfb
Posts: 2218
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:25 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
The battery was also much more powerful than previous versions with output power now at 110kW vs. 80kW in the earlier cars.


That's the output of the inverter-motor portion of the drivetrain, not the battery.


And the battery is more powerful too:

Battery Power Output = kWh per unit of time = Voltage (peak) X Current (peak)

Since the 40 kWh battery has more energy, it can supply more power per unit of time, i.e. it's more powerful.

And since all the Leaf batteries (24/30/40/62) have the same voltage, then each has a higher peak output current,
necessitated by the higher output motors in the case of the 40/62 kWh Leafs.

Using the analogy of an ICEV starter motor for a 5.0L diesel vs a 2.0L Altima, each requires a different Ahr battery rating,
i.e. the diesel starter motor requires a much more powerful battery.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F (35C), min discharge (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 25%, temp < 105F

TheLostPetrol
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:19 am
Delivery Date: 21 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 307105
Location: Greater Chicagoland

Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:39 pm

lorenfb wrote:it can supply more power per unit of time

I'm sure you meant to write either "it can supply more power" or "it can supply more energy per unit of time". All the other units look OK.
2017-12-16 New Prius Prime
2018-02-21 Used 2015 LEAF SV Mfd 2014-07 In-service 2015-02-27
Date mi AHr SOH Hx QC L1/L2
2018-02-21 26,938 60.22 96.98% 90.73% 1 988
2018-07-01 31,601 58.05 93.48% 87.03% 11 1223
2018-10-01 35,428 55.63 89.58% 82.13% 16 1440

SageBrush
Posts: 4217
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:26 pm

TheLostPetrol wrote:
lorenfb wrote:it can supply more power per unit of time

I'm sure you meant to write either "it can supply more power" or "it can supply more energy per unit of time". All the other units look OK.

Yep !

Those EE can be so sloppy :o :D
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

Return to “Batteries & Charging”