New Owner & would like some advice on a 2018 pack(LeafSpy)

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HerdingElectrons

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 8, 2018
Messages
275
Location
Central Coast, Ca
Hey There folks, I made the plunge because the whole EV only concept fascinates me & I think I had a pretty good use case scenario for this car but would like more experienced folks to advise.

The car was built 08/16/2018 & I bought it on 09/17/2017 & the dealer software said the car had been on the lot for 6 days. When I first sat in the car it had 1 mile on it. The ambient temps in that town have been in the 60-80's Fahrenheit so that bodes well too. Here's some screenshots of LeafSpy that I still need to read more about to fully understand but wanted baseline data points. I had to wait for the OBDII adaptor so the mileage was at 58.

Here's a link to an Imgur album of the 4 LeafSpy screens:

https://imgur.com/a/e02aciS


Gx91cOO
 
The leaf spy looks great..... I what is your concern? You have a brand new car that has just been manufactured... What could be wrong???

This car is a long term appliance... Don't worry about temperature, climate, or any external issue. The car is just as hearty as any other car. It will last you at least a decade... Or until you get tired of it..
 
@powersurge, not worried unless there was a glaring out of spec stat!

Also taking a baseline I intend to periodically post reports annually or w/e to track degradation for my edification as well as for others to observe.

@Biker I will be giving it a full charge next Tuesday because I have notably more miles to drive that day. My typical daily miles is around 25-70 on the days I use the car if I use it all day. Otherwise it's just a few miles to the store here or there for food and whatnot.
 
powersurge said:
The leaf spy looks great..... I what is your concern? You have a brand new car that has just been manufactured.
Agreed.

Without know where you, the OP live
powersurge said:
This car is a long term appliance... Don't worry about temperature, climate, or any external issue. The car is just as hearty as any other car. It will last you at least a decade... Or until you get tired of it..
This is TERRIBLE advice for a hot climate and not very good for warmer climates.

I had to give powersurge a history lesson at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=508974#p508974. If he lived in a hotter climate and seen how badly the pre-4/2013 batteries degraded... Even the best batter revision we know of so far, the '15 "lizard" battery which powersurge although improved is no match for hot climates: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=517572#p517572.
 
@cwerdna: I live in the 93422 area & will also operate in the 93446 area. So it can & does get quite warm/hot but I also have the flexibility to not drive in peak heat periods because I prefer to not be working when it's that hot anyways.
 
Is there a question in there somewhere?

How about I ask you; What was SOC when you first arrived at the dealership? A reputable dealership would have it in the 50% range and QC it as they prepped the paperwork for a sale or lease.

As far as LS stats; they are within the norm. The range is 114.5 to 115.2 ahr, and "up to" 99.66 % SOH. (Hx you can ignore as it will likely be in the 110's in a month or so if you drive enough)
 
HerdingElectrons said:
@cwerdna: I live in the 93422 area & will also operate in the 93446 area. So it can & does get quite warm/hot but I also have the flexibility to not drive in peak heat periods because I prefer to not be working when it's that hot anyways.
I had to look up those zip codes on Google maps and unfortunately I don't know those areas. From a brief look at https://www.accuweather.com/en/us/atascadero-ca/93422/month/2167853?monyr=7/01/2018 and some months around it, it does seem pretty warm there.

Unfortunately, it is way too early to tell how the 40 kWh battery will hold up in terms of degradation. It takes us about 2 summers to find out. However, you do have an 8 year/100K capacity warranty unlike us 24 kWh folks (w/5 year/60K capacity warranty).

I pointed to some steps I take to keep my battery cooler: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802&p=509210&hilit=underground#p509210.

Recently again, I was able to keep my battery a few degrees above 70 F when it go to 90 F outside.

There's no way during the hotter months of my year I could choose not to charge because it was above 55 F. Even in cooler months, since I charge mostly at work for free, I still will be doing the bulk of my charging when outside air temps are above 55 F.

Besides the 4 bars down when the Leaf had only been out about 21 months in Phoenix, this guy w/an '11 lost his 4th bar 2 months after the 5 year/60K capacity warranty expired.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=19967&p=454899&hilit=4th+bar#p454899
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=22113&p=463376&hilit=warranty#p463376
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=454921#p454921
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802&p=475234#p475234

Notice his delivery date is in Jan 2011 and 4th bar loss was in March 2016? He was down somewhere past 30% capacity, maybe 35% or 36%. He got no takers at $4500 and donated it. It didn't help that he was a remote part of CA. I bet if he were in the SF Bay Area, it'd have been snapped up at that price.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Is there a question in there somewhere?

How about I ask you; What was SOC when you first arrived at the dealership? A reputable dealership would have it in the 50% range and QC it as they prepped the paperwork for a sale or lease.

As far as LS stats; they are within the norm. The range is 114.5 to 115.2 ahr, and "up to" 99.66 % SOH. (Hx you can ignore as it will likely be in the 110's in a month or so if you drive enough)

SOC was 99% so that was not ideal obviously. Also their QC is offline so that's not an option for them or me.
 
cwerdna said:
HerdingElectrons said:
@cwerdna: I live in the 93422 area & will also operate in the 93446 area. So it can & does get quite warm/hot but I also have the flexibility to not drive in peak heat periods because I prefer to not be working when it's that hot anyways.
I had to look up those zip codes on Google maps and unfortunately I don't know those areas. From a brief look at https://www.accuweather.com/en/us/atascadero-ca/93422/month/2167853?monyr=7/01/2018 and some months around it, it does seem pretty warm there.

Unfortunately, it is way too early to tell how the 40 kWh battery will hold up in terms of degradation. It takes us about 2 summers to find out. However, you do have an 8 year/100K capacity warranty unlike us 24 kWh folks (w/5 year/60K capacity warranty).

Recently again, I was able to keep my battery a few degrees above 70 F when it go to 90 F outside.

There's no way during the hotter months of my year I could choose not to charge because it was above 55 F. Even in cooler months, since I charge mostly at work for free, I still will be doing the bulk of my charging when outside air temps are above 55 F.

Notice his delivery date is in Jan 2011 and 4th bar loss was in March 2016? He was down somewhere past 30% capacity, maybe 35% or 36%. He got no takers at $4500 and donated it. It didn't help that he was a remote part of CA. I bet if he were in the SF Bay Area, it'd have been snapped up at that price.

Unless something changes the vast majority of my charging will be at home overnight/early morning timeframe.

Sounds like I should just use it albeit be smart to a point & make use of the warranty if I need it. Especially since I can drive about 1000 miles a month & track with the battery warranty timeline perfectly. It will be very interesting to see what the replacement pack specs will be in 10 years.
 
HEY GUYS! It's like I cant have an opinion without you precision-fanatics start coming down!

The original poster just bought his car a WEEK ago, and he appears to be worried about Leafspy results..... I feel that his concern of ambient temperature and otherwise is premature, unwarranted, and a bit overdone.

He should be happy to enjoy the car, take Leafspys readings every month or so to establish the car's baseline and be done with it. Otherwise it would be as obsessive as taking your body temperature 10x/day.... Unnecessary.

So stop making stupid put-downs of my comments, especially to new members. YOURS are not the ONLY comments that is valid....
 
powersurge said:
The original poster just bought his car a WEEK ago, and he appears to be worried about Leafspy results..... I feel that his concern of ambient temperature and otherwise is premature, unwarranted, and a bit overdone.

He should be happy to enjoy the car, take Leafspys readings every month or so to establish the car's baseline and be done with it. Otherwise it would be as obsessive as taking your body temperature 10x/day.... Unnecessary.
Regarding the Leaf Spy AHr, SOH and Hx results on a new car, I'd agree that it's pointless to obsess about it. It will fluctuate. Over the very long term, those will gradually go lower.
powersurge said:
So stop making stupid put-downs of my comments, especially to new members. YOURS are not the ONLY comments that is valid....
As for the bolded part, I disagree strongly if one is in a hot climate. Leaf batteries have no thermal management. I already pointed to all sorts of data and a paper at https://www.nec.com/en/global/techrep/journal/g12/n01/pdf/120112.pdf that refers to the Arrhenius equation that talks about a correlation between temperature and degradation. AESC was the JV between NEC and Nissan, producing li-ion batteries for Leaf and other Nissan vehicles (e.g. hybrids): http://www.eco-aesc-lb.com/en/aboutus/company/

In hotter climates, it is probably a good idea to take precautions if one plans to keep the vehicle a long time since it is way too early to tell how the 40 kWh batteries will hold up. However, there is a possible downside. Babying the battery could result in one missing (losing 4 bars) by 8 year/100K capacity warranty expiration (== no free replacement) while abusing or nearly abusing it could mean a free replacement before expiration. Some folks on the cusp down in San Diego on '11 Leafs experienced that (e.g. drees, IIRC) when the capacity warranty was 5 years/60K miles.

You've posted ridiculous assertions and "theories" like at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=508929#p508929 besides dispensing questionable advice like at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=503857#p503857. Again, plenty of folks here on MNL (and some I know outside MNL) have lost 4 bars within the 5 year/60K capacity warranty on the pre-lizard (before model year 15 batteries) in hot/hotter climates, esp. pre-4/2013 built Leafs. And, some missed it. It's not a conspiracy.

If you'd been here longer on MNL, didn't live in a mild climate and didn't have a lizard pack, you would probably think differently. I loaned some equipment to surfingslovak (meeting at Turbo3's house for him to loan him more equipment) for TonyWilliams's 2012 Phoenix range test. I was here watching on MNL posts and discussion about degradation prior to surfingslovak flying to Phoenix to help w/the testing.

If I have the time, knowledge, and data, if people don't beat me to the punch, I will continue to challenge misinformation posted here, regardless of who it's from.
 
HerdingElectrons said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
Is there a question in there somewhere?

How about I ask you; What was SOC when you first arrived at the dealership? A reputable dealership would have it in the 50% range and QC it as they prepped the paperwork for a sale or lease.

As far as LS stats; they are within the norm. The range is 114.5 to 115.2 ahr, and "up to" 99.66 % SOH. (Hx you can ignore as it will likely be in the 110's in a month or so if you drive enough)

SOC was 99% so that was not ideal obviously. Also their QC is offline so that's not an option for them or me.

oh well 99% is def not good. Were they expecting you to pick up the car that day or were you just browsing when you decided to buy?

If they knew you were coming, it would be likely they charged it for you. If not, then its likely they simply don't know any better...
 
They were expecting me so they may have charged it up for the test drive but I don't get the impression they are super EV savvy even though it's a combined Nissan/BMW dealer franchise so you would think they would have above avg EV "experience".

My presumption is they fully charged it when they did the initial PDI work although the car was so fresh that my initial test drive the sun visors were still covered in plastic & over half the car still had the external wrap on it so who knows. It may have had its factory delivered charge & they charged it overnight because that was the timeline between contact & test drive.
 
And to follow up on my original reason for posting is that I'm not stressed about my cars battery life, rather I was unsure about what the stats LS was reporting meant because I didn't have a good idea what to compare to until several people provided some comparative data.

After LOTS of MNL reading & playing with LS a lot I have a better idea of what all the battery telemetry data is telling me! Thanks for all the contributions to my questions
 
I was fully expecting to be in the 95's by Oct 1st but that did not happen as I lost on .17% SOH for Sept. But at just under 12,000 miles I am sitting at 96.00% SOH for 5 days now.
 
Thanks for sharing stats on some newer leaf models. I just picked up my ‘19 sl plus. I didn’t do the proper research and am now just learning about battery degradation (doh!).... all the tips I’ve read about climate, temperature control, and fast charging have been extremely helpful! I plan on putting about 25k miles/yr on it with my long commute to work... hopefully, I’ll be in line for a battery replacement if things go south!
 
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