Newbie question: 80% overnight vs morning?

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Honva

Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2018
Messages
23
Location
Ontario, Canada
Just got a 2018 Leaf as my first EV. I have read opinion that it is better for batteries not to stay at full charge for too long. How about at 80% charge? Does it matter if everyday I charge the battery to 80% in the evening and drive the next morning? Would it be better to charge to 80% in the early morning instead? My gut feeling is probably no difference at all. Want to hear from other experienced users. Re-charge the car in the evening is more peace of mind to avoid any surprises from overnight or early morning power outage :?

Thanks in advance for any input.
 
Recharging to whatever level you need, with the charge ending soon before you leave for work, is best. If you can charge to 80% overnight, that's great. I just hope that you realize you will have to limit the charge yourself, either by unplugging it or by have it reach 80% in the morning. The newer Leafs don't have a charge to 80% feature.
 
Honva said:
Would it be better to charge to 80% in the early morning instead? My gut feeling is probably no difference at all. Want to hear from other experienced users. Re-charge the car in the evening is more peace of mind to avoid any surprises from overnight or early morning power outage :?

Several different points of view. From the point of view of the utility company, they would rather you charged in the night, 12AM to 4AM. That is when the grid has excess capacity, as demand is at minimum. Or in places with lots of solar, perhaps midday. Depends on the local power grid sources and loads. Evening is probably one or the worst, or the possible worst time, from a grid point of view.

From the point of view of maximizing battery life, charging right before departure, and perhaps to 100% one day a week, would be ideal. The utility company might not like that, as there is often a morning power use peak.

I don't know your power outage situtation. Or alternatives, like charging at work in the case of a power outage. So I'm not going to guess. I don't get power outages very often. When I couldn't charge at home, I charged at work.
 
Thanks for the replies.

Yes, I know that the 18 Leaf don't have the 80% option. However, this is my drive to work car which is quite consistent that I only use about 35-40% of power everyday. I just set the timer for 130 min and it will get back to about 80%. When needed, I just change the timer slightly after stopping. The 80% option is not really necessary.

My bad. When I said evening, I actually mean around 11pm. :) A time when demand is low. If it is not good to the battery, I could do 4:50-7:00 instead. Car is in garage which won't be too hot or too cold. If there are no significant difference, I would prefer to charge around 11:00 instead.
 
My bad. When I said evening, I actually mean around 11pm. :) A time when demand is low. If it is not good to the battery, I could do 4:50-7:00 instead. Car is in garage which won't be too hot or too cold. If there are no significant difference, I would prefer to charge around 11:00 instead.

We generally say that if you charge to 80% it doesn't matter if the car sits afterward. However, given the looming possibility that the 40wkh pack will have serious problems with heat, I'd say that in hot weather you should let the car cool for as long as possible. That means having it reach 80% right before you leave for work. It may also mean only charging every other day, to let the pack cool as much as possible.
 
The OP is from Ontario, Canada. Long before Ontario summer arrives, there should be plenty of feedback from owners in hotter climates about battery temps, accelerated degredation, etc. If it was me, I wouldn't worry too much about charging to 80% ish at anytime (whenever convenient), nor about having the pack sit idle at that SOC. The jury will be out by June/July...
 
alozzy said:
The OP is from Ontario, Canada. Long before Ontario summer arrives, there should be plenty of feedback from owners in hotter climates about battery temps, accelerated degredation, etc. If it was me, I wouldn't worry too much about charging to 80% ish at anytime (whenever convenient), nor about having the pack sit idle at that SOC. The jury will be out by June/July...

The climate in much of Ontario isn't a lot different from mine, so I'd expect some 90F days and some stretches of 80+ days and warm nights. It wouldn't take any more than that to degrade a heat-intolerant battery. As I wrote, they only need to worry in hot weather.
 
Elec car newbie here with a question on charging. We live in Fla., really hot here, but, the car is always in a garage. It is charged using an L2 charger in the same garage. We can charge anytime we want or as long or as short as we want. Guess thats what come when you retire ;) . Based on this should I charge the battery multiple short charges to reach my 80% or just one long charge to 80%. Also should I let the battery run down to 20% before charging or just top it off to *)% each time we run down some. And balancing? Can it be done on the L2 and what process to use? Great blog you guys have. :)
I ask this in reference to stretching out battery lifespan.
 
Balancing should occur with any charging level, but only happens at 100% charge, so plan on a full charge once a month, right before you leave for a drive. You're be best trying to keep the car roughly between 25% and 75%, and planning on charging only when the pack is cool. This sounds nuts, but thanks to Nissan's "engineering" I'm planning on putting an air conditioner in my garage so I can store the car in moderate temps during heatwaves. I'll set it for about 78-80F...
 
LeftieBiker said:
Balancing should occur with any charging level, but only happens at 100% charge, so plan on a full charge once a month, right before you leave for a drive. You're be best trying to keep the car roughly between 25% and 75%, and planning on charging only when the pack is cool. This sounds nuts, but thanks to Nissan's "engineering" I'm planning on putting an air conditioner in my garage so I can store the car in moderate temps during heatwaves. I'll set it for about 78-80F...

I had this crazy idea today to bring my 15 Leaf to a car wash that I know has very cold water and use the undercarriage wash a few times to see if it would budge my constant 6 bar battery at all.

NO. Nothing.

I think you guys mentioned to me on my other thread that it takes some time for that large mass to get affected by any temp change.

How long do you think it would take in your future AC garage setup? Or is it something preventative?

Just curious.

Thanks

G
 
How long do you think it would take in your future AC garage setup? Or is it something preventative?

More a way to prevent the car from heat soaking for a whole day, and then being kept warm at night as well, during a heatwave. I don't do a lot of driving anymore, so it may work. Those who drive a lot would see little benefit.
 
I keep track of every charge session so I can calculate the amount of money spent on electricity. When possible I also note the amount of time for which the timer is set. Once I had enough data points I made a little card that lists the average amount of charge I get back over a set period of time for both my L2 charger and the one at work. It's not perfect as the ambient temp plays a part in the amount of charge, but it gives me a pretty decent idea for the amount of time I need to charge get to a SOC needed for the day. I live close to work and do about 2/3rds of my charging there, so I'm always shooting for minimum SOC to keep my pack on the temp golden zone.
 
:twisted:
LeftieBiker said:
How long do you think it would take in your future AC garage setup? Or is it something preventative?

More a way to prevent the car from heat soaking for a whole day, and then being kept warm at night as well, during a heatwave. I don't do a lot of driving anymore, so it may work. Those who drive a lot would see little benefit.

Very good idea I'd like to implement too but I'll need to start with a house rental first with a garage

Blink is costly to charge :ugeek:
 
GaryHere said:
I had this crazy idea today to bring my 15 Leaf to a car wash that I know has very cold water and use the undercarriage wash a few times to see if it would budge my constant 6 bar battery at all.

NO. Nothing.
The stupid temp display has huge overlapping ranges and some black box algorithm: http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery#Battery_Temperature_Gauge. It could be from 50 F to 100F and still show 6 bars.

If you used Leaf Spy, you could see the effect, if any. For me, IIRC, if battery temp passes 59 F, that's about the right point for which 4 bars becomes 5. I don't recall typically when 5 bars turns into 6.

It needs to be very cold water, much colder than ambient to help much.

The water might be actually the same temp or not much lower than ambient, But, to you, it feels cold due to its heat transfer ability vs. air. Same goes if you touch cool metal vs. cool plastic. Both might be actually the same temp, somewhere below body temp but the cool metal might feel colder since it conducts heat from your skin better.

I can see that L2 charging from 35 or 40% to 80% typically raises my pack temp a few degrees (maybe 5 to 7 F, memory foggy).
GaryHere said:
I think you guys mentioned to me on my other thread that it takes some time for that large mass to get affected by any temp change.
Yes.
 
cwerdna said:
GaryHere said:
I had this crazy idea today to bring my 15 Leaf to a car wash that I know has very cold water and use the undercarriage wash a few times to see if it would budge my constant 6 bar battery at all.

NO. Nothing.
The stupid temp display has huge overlapping ranges and some black box algorithm: http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery#Battery_Temperature_Gauge. It could be from 50 F to 100F and still show 6 bars.

If you used Leaf Spy, you could see the effect, if any. For me, IIRC, if battery temp passes 59 F, that's about the right point for which 4 bars becomes 5. I don't recall typically when 5 bars turns into 6.

It needs to be very cold water, much colder than ambient to help much.

The water might be actually the same temp or not much lower than ambient, But, to you, it feels cold due to its heat transfer ability vs. air. Same goes if you touch cool metal vs. cool plastic. Both might be actually the same temp, somewhere below body temp but the cool metal might feel colder since it conducts heat from your skin better.

I can see that L2 charging from 35 or 40% to 80% typically raises my pack temp a few degrees (maybe 5 to 7 F, memory foggy).
GaryHere said:
I think you guys mentioned to me on my other thread that it takes some time for that large mass to get affected by any temp change.
Yes.

Thanks. Been thinking about getting the Leaf Spy, just researching an affordable BT or Wifi OBD.

Interesting about the water and also about your pack went up a few bars with L2. I have yet to see anything rise from 6 bars yet when I have been charging.

Im going to charge now at a library and pay for it. Will be in the sun and its 100 now so I will see if the bars move up.

Been using a free Chargepoint L2 but its the other direction today.
 
GaryHere said:
Thanks. Been thinking about getting the Leaf Spy, just researching an affordable BT or Wifi OBD.

Interesting about the water and also about your pack went up a few bars with L2. I have yet to see anything rise from 6 bars yet when I have been charging.
It didn't go up a few bars from L2 charging. It will either not budge or might gain 1 temp bar, esp. if it gets moved from a sunken down cooler area of the parking garage at my work than is normally much cooler on hot days that ground level temps to level 2 or 3 of my parking structure @ work. It can stay under 80 F down there even when it's 90+ F outside.

You need to use a tool like Leaf Spy to see the actual temps reported by the pack's sensors.
 
cwerdna said:
GaryHere said:
Thanks. Been thinking about getting the Leaf Spy, just researching an affordable BT or Wifi OBD.

Interesting about the water and also about your pack went up a few bars with L2. I have yet to see anything rise from 6 bars yet when I have been charging.
It didn't go up a few bars from L2 charging. It will either not budge or might gain 1 temp bar, esp. if it gets moved from a sunken down cooler area of the parking garage at my work than is normally much cooler on hot days that ground level temps to level 2 or 3 of my parking structure @ work. It can stay under 80 F down there even when it's 90+ F outside.

You need to use a tool like Leaf Spy to see the actual temps reported by the pack's sensors.

Today (posted in my other thread) it went up to 7 after an hr of L2 charging but after I drove home from the library where the Blink is at.

Im working on getting the Leaf Spy and OBD/etc; been looking around.


About to drive now to the store; hopefully it went back to 6 after sitting. But its still 82 here in Tucson at 2200.


Edit---- On way to store, its back to 6 bars. Going to test out if the L2 will raise it up while charging tomorrow in the heat back to less than 80% then I will do 2 days with Zero charging and see. We will have the same temps over the next few days to test this.

Hopefully you are right and it didnt go up from the L2 but that we are getting hotter at night then weeks ago.
 
GaryHere said:
Im working on getting the Leaf Spy and OBD/etc; been looking around.
It's not that hard. If you have iOS, as long as your device has Bluetooth LE, the answer's simple: LELink. Or you could go with these:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=460646#p460646.

LeafSpy author Turbo3 recommends LELink: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19147&p=527711&hilit=lelink+recommend#p527711.

He doesn't recommend wifi adapters anymore: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=525414#p525414. Before he had Bluetooth LE support on iOS, I think there was no choice on iOS but to use wifi adapters.

For Android, if you buy a cheapo phone that doesn't have Bluetooth LE, then LELink (and all Bluetooth LE devices) won't work: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=521073#p521073. There are numerous threads where people have discussed what they found does and doesn't work w/the Android version of Leaf Spy.

I listed what work for me on Android, which I bought in July 2015: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=506937#p506937. The app may not have been supported Bluetooth LE on either OS yet. And, at the time, I figured the Android version should be less buggy since Turbo3 has been at it on Android much longer than he has iOS. He had to go out of his way to buy a Mac to start work on the iOS version.

Once you see the actual temps w/Leaf Spy or something similar, you will see how crappy the temp bars are. Maybe someone in your area can loan you their dongle for a few days.
 
cwerdna said:
GaryHere said:
Im working on getting the Leaf Spy and OBD/etc; been looking around.
It's not that hard. If you have iOS, as long as your device has Bluetooth LE, the answer's simple: LELink. Or you could go with these:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=460646#p460646.

LeafSpy author Turbo3 recommends LELink: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19147&p=527711&hilit=lelink+recommend#p527711.

He doesn't recommend wifi adapters anymore: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=525414#p525414. Before he had Bluetooth LE support on iOS, I think there was no choice on iOS but to use wifi adapters.

For Android, if you buy a cheapo phone that doesn't have Bluetooth LE, then LELink (and all Bluetooth LE devices) won't work: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=521073#p521073. There are numerous threads where people have discussed what they found does and doesn't work w/the Android version of Leaf Spy.

I listed what work for me on Android, which I bought in July 2015: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=506937#p506937. The app may not have been supported Bluetooth LE on either OS yet. And, at the time, I figured the Android version should be less buggy since Turbo3 has been at it on Android much longer than he has iOS. He had to go out of his way to buy a Mac to start work on the iOS version.

Once you see the actual temps w/Leaf Spy or something similar, you will see how crappy the temp bars are. Maybe someone in your area can loan you their dongle for a few days.

I have BT on my phone so I will look into the links here and order the OBD from Amazon.

Thank you much for the resources here!

Gary
 
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