AndyH
Posts: 6384
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:43 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: Joining the 80% Club

Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:29 pm

planet4ever wrote:
AndyH wrote:Cross-checking with the Owners Manual, it appears that the 'battery low' warning light activates when the pack reaches 4kWh remaining

Agreed.

AndyH wrote:and that's the power reduction threshold.

Huh? No way! Power reduction is when the turtle light comes on, formally known as the 'power limitation indicator light'. That's a completely different light from 'battery low warning light'.

AndyH wrote:It also appears that's when the last bar goes dark - 16.25% remaining from a 24kWh hour pack is 3.9kWh.

Umm ... Andy, you were looking at the wrong table. 16.25 is in the Capacity table, not the Available Charge table. If I am reading the table correctly, the last red bar turns off when the available charge drops to 4%, i.e. about 1 kWh left.

Nice job - thanks! Sometimes a little bit of info is dangerous... Let's try this again...once reviewed 'll edit the original.

Image

12 - Driving Range Display
13 - Battery Available Charge Gauge (Fuel Gauge)
14 - Battery Capacity Level Gauge (Battery Condition/Total Capacity Gauge)

The inner gauge is the 'Battery Available Charge Gauge'.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Ok, my head hurts now. The low battery charge warning light (fuel pump) activates when we discharge the pack to 4kWh (16.7% capacity) or less. How many Available Charge Gauge bars are lit at that point? And the timing table - do bars represent different states of charge during discharge and charge? What's with the 4% 'missing' between bars? (As an aside, the EVC section says the low charge warning light extinguishes when the pack has recovered 4.5kWh or more energy.)

The turtle light...Power Limitation Light...will illuminate when the battery level is low (but how low?), or when the battery can provide 40kW or less power, or when the motor or inverter is overheated, or the pack temperature is too high or too low, or battery capacity is low, or... (EVC p.53)

Image

12 - Driving Range Display
13 - Battery Available Charge Gauge (Fuel Gauge)
14 - Battery Capacity Level Gauge (Battery Condition/Total Capacity Gauge)

Image

Image

This gauge loses bars as the battery degrades. It looks like this is a joint BMS and car controller function.

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evnow
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Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Joining the 80% Club

Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:37 pm

My reading.
- Battery low when 2 bars are lit (4kwh)
- Turtle when one bar is lit (2kwh)
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

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planet4ever
Posts: 4674
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:53 pm
Delivery Date: 02 May 2011
Leaf Number: 1537
Location: Morgan Hill, CA, south of San Jose

Re: Joining the 80% Club

Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:43 pm

AndyH wrote:Image

12 - Driving Range Display
13 - Battery Available Charge Gauge (Fuel Gauge)
14 - Battery Capacity Level Gauge (Battery Condition/Total Capacity Gauge)

As Fonzie used to say, "I knew that." Sorry. Clearly anything I said or anyone else said about the two red bars was nonsense. Maybe I'll feel differently once I'm driving my LEAF, but at the moment the display seems counter-intuitive, as if the most obvious part (capacity) is the part we need to pay little attention to while driving.

AndyH wrote:Ok, my head hurts now. The low battery charge warning light (fuel pump) activates when we discharge the pack to 4kWh (16.7% capacity) or less. How many Available Charge Gauge bars are lit at that point? And the timing table - do bars represent different states of charge during discharge and charge? What's with the 4% 'missing' between bars?

As someone pointed out earlier, the 4% is so the bar doesn't flicker on and off when at the transition point. If I'm reading the table correctly, at 16.7% there will be two bars lit. When the charge drops to 12% one of those two bars will go out. If you pick up some regen juice and get back up to 14% you will still see only one bar. You have to get back up to 16% to see the second bar.

AndyH wrote:The turtle light...Power Limitation Light...will illuminate when the battery level is low (but how low?), or when the battery can provide 40kW or less power, or when the motor or inverter is overheated, or the pack temperature is too high or too low, or battery capacity is low, or... (EVC p.53)

Clearly there are multiple conditions that can cause this to come on, and they are all sort of "emergency room" situations. But as for the available charge case, my guess is at 4%, the same point where the last bar disappears. However, evnow could be right that it is more like 8%. I lean toward the lower figure since someone reported that they "believed" they had traveled about 10 miles after the battery charge warning came on, and they hadn't seen the turtle light yet. It also seems to me that you are going to get (be forced to get) very high mileage in turtle mode; probably at least 7 miles/kWh. I would think that 5 miles in that mode would be about all that anyone could tolerate. So why force it with more than 1 kWh left?
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

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Spies
Posts: 837
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:22 am
Delivery Date: 10 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0255
Location: Foster City, CA

Re: Joining the 80% Club

Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:19 am

Here is my interpretation of the "Battery Available Charge Gauge (Fuel Gauge)" and the "Li-ion battery available charge gauge segments ON/OFF parameters"

Looking at the chart there is two thresholds for the illumination of the 12 bars. The ON timing threshold is used when energy is going into the battery pack such as charging or regen breaking and the OFF timing threshold when energy is going out of the pack such as driving the wheels or running the climate control.

So if I was to look at the gauge and I saw it change from 10 bars lit to 9 bars lit according to the chart the battery would be at 76% of capacity and assuming a 24kWh pack that would come out to 18.24kWh.

Now I just happened to reach the peak of a long hill when that 10 bar turned off so I will now be putting energy back into the battery by using regen breaking but it won't be until the battery is 80% charged or about 19.2kWh before the 10 bar is lit again.
Green Honda EV Plus 02/1998-12/2003 plate "ZERO CO2" rip, Aptera 2e #726 canceled
Blue Nissan Leaf SL loaded reserved 04/20/2010 ordered 08/31/2010 EVSE Blink #182
CARWINGS Nickname Theres233, should be Spies

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Spies
Posts: 837
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:22 am
Delivery Date: 10 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0255
Location: Foster City, CA

Re: Joining the 80% Club

Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:36 am

evnow wrote:My reading.
- Battery low when 2 bars are lit (4kwh)
- Turtle when one bar is lit (2kwh)
I see from the images in this thread that the mileage indicator will start blinking at 4kWh remaining and go to "---" at 2kWh remaining but I did not see where turtle mode kicks in. If I had to guess it would be at the no bars threshold or 4% or about 1kWh of the 24kWh usable.
Green Honda EV Plus 02/1998-12/2003 plate "ZERO CO2" rip, Aptera 2e #726 canceled
Blue Nissan Leaf SL loaded reserved 04/20/2010 ordered 08/31/2010 EVSE Blink #182
CARWINGS Nickname Theres233, should be Spies

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Spies
Posts: 837
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:22 am
Delivery Date: 10 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0255
Location: Foster City, CA

Re: Joining the 80% Club

Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:26 am

I hope I am not stating the obvious but here is a little math using the chart and assuming 24kWh usable pack. This is assuming the battery is discharging

Code: Select all

12 bars lit 100% to 92%  24.00 kWh to 22.08 kWh
11 bars lit  92% to 84%  22.08 kWh to 20.16 kWh
10 bars lit  84% to 76%  20.16 kWh to 18.24 kWh
09 bars lit  76% to 68%  18.24 kWh to 16.32 kWh
08 bars lit  68% to 60%  16.32 kWh to 14.40 kWh
07 bars lit  60% to 52%  14.40 kWh to 12.48 kWh
06 bars lit  52% to 44%  12.48 kWh to 10.56 kWh
05 bars lit  44% to 36%  10.56 kWh to  8.64 kWh
04 bars lit  36% to 28%   8.64 kWh to  6.72 kWh
03 bars lit  28% to 20%   6.72 kWh to  4.80 kWh
02 bars lit  20% to 12%   4.80 kWh to  2.88 kWh  Low battery and charge warning and range blinking at 4 kWh 
01 bar  lit  12% to  4%   2.88 kWh to  0.96 kWh  Range displays "---" at 2 kWh and turtle mode suspected
00 bars lit   4% to  0%   0.96 kWh to  0.00 kWh
Hopefully this will help with the discussion. Does it make sense?
Green Honda EV Plus 02/1998-12/2003 plate "ZERO CO2" rip, Aptera 2e #726 canceled
Blue Nissan Leaf SL loaded reserved 04/20/2010 ordered 08/31/2010 EVSE Blink #182
CARWINGS Nickname Theres233, should be Spies

leafme
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:27 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0200
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Joining the 80% Club

Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:31 am

[quote=]I think you will get battery low at 2 bars. Anyway - it will be a good test.[/quote]

I got low batt yesterday as I pulled into my garage with 14 mi left with 2 of 12 bars (the red 2)

Malcolm :geek:

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mwalsh
Posts: 9505
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0213
Location: Garden Grove, CA

Re: Joining the 80% Club

Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:26 am

leafme wrote:I got low batt yesterday as I pulled into my garage with 14 mi left with 2 of 12 bars (the red 2)


Hmmm.....that is not what I wanted to hear. :lol:

So who wants me to drive today until it completely dies?

Not going to happen. :P
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 76,000 miles.
2015 pack under warranty 12/30/15.
Tinted windows.
Bridgestone Ecopia 422+ tires.
L1 EVSE upgrade.
FIAMM horns.
Superbright LED lighting.
2013 sun visors.
LED shifter.
Heated seats.
GT-R map lamp lenses.
AV L2 EVSE.

kmp647
Posts: 1135
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:00 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Nov 2011
Location: Northern Virginia

Re: Joining the 80% Club

Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:31 am

I really think you will makeit home... but your car will be complaining.....


;)
2012 SL Leaf
order 07/28/2011
took delivery 11/11/11
47,000 miles 10 bars 211 gids
Turned back into Nissan 12/31/14 @ 50,000 miles
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garygid
Gold Member
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Delivery Date: 29 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000855
Location: Laguna Hills, Orange Co, CA

Re: Joining the 80% Club

Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:41 am

It appears that the Capacity Bars do not even WARN you of any CAPACITY loss until you have LOST 15% (down to 85%), presumably of "usable" capacity.
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2011 LEAF, sold in 2015
2010 Prius, 2014 silver Tesla S
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PU: SDG&E
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