A few months ago Mark Perry on a NPR radeo broadcast said that Nissan may do that. Will Nissan take away Fords braging rights that it`s EV charges faster than a Leaf by making this change? I would find the upgrade very helpful to maximize the use of off peak charging rates and opportunity charging.
Will Nissan retrofit the 3.3 charger to 6.6
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Randy
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I asked Mark Perry this very question at the Nissan San Diego Design Center Event in early December.
sdbones was there with me. Let's see if I can remember all the details of his response...
He said that Nissan will be offering a retrofit, and it will be in 2-3 years. The internal charger in the car is enclosed in the "Hump" between the trunk and the rear seat, and he said they have found a vendor that makes a smaller sized unit physically (the new 6.6 kW unit) that turns out to be less-cost than the current 3.3 unit, and that Nissan was giving some thought to relocating the internal charger as part of the retrofit. But they haven't figured out the physical part of what that would do to the trunk area.
RedRandy
sdbones was there with me. Let's see if I can remember all the details of his response...
He said that Nissan will be offering a retrofit, and it will be in 2-3 years. The internal charger in the car is enclosed in the "Hump" between the trunk and the rear seat, and he said they have found a vendor that makes a smaller sized unit physically (the new 6.6 kW unit) that turns out to be less-cost than the current 3.3 unit, and that Nissan was giving some thought to relocating the internal charger as part of the retrofit. But they haven't figured out the physical part of what that would do to the trunk area.
RedRandy
EVDRIVER
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Based on that comment that means NO for exiting cars and it will be standard on all future cars. It takes VERY little space to double that chargers output particularly since its water cooled. Wait! Nissan does not build their own charger! What a surprise
Basically he knows they should have used a larger charger, they were behind the curve when they made the decision to go with 3.3 and they knew that but ignored the feedback. Don't expect future EVs to have such small chargers. It was a poor marketing decision, nothing more. Don't expect an affordable Nissan upgrade, it's highly unlikely since chargers are expensive to make. Those that really need a larger charger will work a fix on the L3 port but not likely spend the big bucks to upgrade, if I were not keeping my Leaf short term I would do the latter but I know that in a couple years things will be changing quite a bit and I will be upgrading before the car value drops too much. If they ever offer a pack upgrade the charger will be underpowered for many.
Basically he knows they should have used a larger charger, they were behind the curve when they made the decision to go with 3.3 and they knew that but ignored the feedback. Don't expect future EVs to have such small chargers. It was a poor marketing decision, nothing more. Don't expect an affordable Nissan upgrade, it's highly unlikely since chargers are expensive to make. Those that really need a larger charger will work a fix on the L3 port but not likely spend the big bucks to upgrade, if I were not keeping my Leaf short term I would do the latter but I know that in a couple years things will be changing quite a bit and I will be upgrading before the car value drops too much. If they ever offer a pack upgrade the charger will be underpowered for many.
walterbays
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That's good to know, thanks. Meanwhile I like Perry's quote about the Ford Focus, to the effect that since people are charging at night, it really doesn't matter whether the charge is done at 3am or 6am.Randy said:
Now if there were a whole lot of 6.6 kW public L2 chargers around so you could plug in just about anywhere you parked, then I could really wish for that upgrade. Maybe that will be the case in about 2-3 years. Right now I'm just wondering when will be the first sighting of any J1772 charging station besides at a Nissan dealer.
EVDRIVER
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walterbays said:
I have done nothing but 7.2kw charging at public garages in the last four years. He is feeding people marketing speak, yes some people will only charge at night and many will quickly understand the meaning of opportunity charging. Everyone will certainly have different needs, many will be left out without an affordable solution, it's just the way it is. Check back on this forum at the end of the year on the charging comments, there will be an entire thread on this in time.
EVNation
Well-known member
walterbays said:
Actually, there are quite a few J1772 chargers out in the wild. I charged at one at the Santa Monica Civic center yesterday. Two local Toyota Dealers oddly have them also. I actually am tracking current 25 non-Nissan/GM/Toyota J1772 out in the wild and I know there are a lot more I can't confirm are active.
Speaking from Mini-E experience, the 6.6K charger would be pretty huge for longer distance driving. I used a big charger in Brea (50amp not even 32a) fairly often when visiting my brother. I could get 80% it 2 hrs or so after a nice snack. With the 3.3 that will not be possible unless I spend half the day. We also would pop home a few hours during the day on weekends then go out that night. With 3.3k I would get half the gain at home.
So I agree that the lack of 6.6 was a pretty big miss that people will make hay on. Not a dealbreaker by any means. 90% I charge overnight and am fine. But those few times it will be different. Personally, I hope for a reasonable upgrade prior to 3 years, and if not, I am definitely switching up to something new at that time.
Chelsea Sexton said something I agree with very much. I would take 6.6kw without quick charge, over 3.3kw with QC any day if all else was equal. It is just way more handy in the day to day use IMO.
Not that this really was a factor in my decision. I am here with the car right
.
JPVLeaf
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Why do you think Nissan opted for the 3.3kw instead (of 6.6)? Purely cost reasons or other?EVDRIVER said:Based on that comment that means NO for exiting cars and it will be standard on all future cars. It takes VERY little space to double that chargers output particularly since its water cooled. Wait! Nissan does not build their own charger! What a surprise
smkettner
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http://www.southcoastplaza.com/walterbays said:
You might make it up from SD to CM and spend the day shopping
(click concierge, transportation services for the EV info)
cdub
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JPVLeaf said:
I'm sure it had to be for cost reasons.
Coffee_Slurry
Well-known member
cdub said:
I agree. But I also have to wonder how much cost had to be added to support CHAdeMO.. that's not a small feature to put in your BMS.
Anyway, I hope they do offer 6.6kw, maybe in the 2014 model.
kmp647
Well-known member
In japan normal house voltage is 240v all the outlets in the house
So the stock charger is setup for a 16 amp max on 240
That's why we are limited here
So the stock charger is setup for a 16 amp max on 240
That's why we are limited here
Gonewild
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Yes that is what Mark Perry told me COST!JPVLeaf said:Why do you think Nissan opted for the 3.3kw instead (of 6.6)? Purely cost reasons or other?EVDRIVER said:Based on that comment that means NO for exiting cars and it will be standard on all future cars. It takes VERY little space to double that chargers output particularly since its water cooled. Wait! Nissan does not build their own charger! What a surprise
GroundLoop said:
I would say something between $1 and $700 (since that's what we paid for the option). :lol:
EVDRIVER
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cdub said:
Sure, it cost more but not incrementally, going to 6.6 is not that much more costly compared to very large chargers and the size would likely be exactly the same, in the auto world if it costs $100 you pay $350 so if they just added the cost it would have not been that much more. They could have put a 6.6kw charger in every car telling everyone it was 3.3 and had 6.6 as an option at purchase where all they had to do was enable the higher output in the software eliminating the need for two models to be built. If the upgrade were $500 I would bet they would have gotten at least a 50% plus buy in and many would opt in over the L3. If someone upgraded a pack later they could charge an upgrade fee and now your new higher capacity pack gets a matched charger upgrade at a nominal fee and all the dealer does is changes the software. Two charging profiles loaded in, it's that simple. Many products are sold and marketed that way. The issue with an upgrade later is that its costly, I suppose one could do a bad boy charger to get the pack to 70-80% then do L2
This would have been a brilliant revenue stream for dealers and there could have been a "hardware key" for upgrades to prevent hacks. Just think how many consumers would later do to the dealer and pay for the upgrade and the dealer makes a buck and the labor is easy because its's all software. I bet in time 75% of the cars would get the upgrade.DarkStar
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200v in Japan, but I believe you are correct with the average amperage.kmp647 said:
Coffee_Slurry
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That's what we pay for the Plug & Wiring. I posit that there are also expensive R&D efforts that went into every Leaf to enable QuickCharge as an option, and perhaps even non-optional parts of the charger design there to support the connection. It has some cost, but I don't know what.mwalsh said:
Time will tell -- as more people drive and the infrastructure either materializes, slants toward L3, or stays at zero (ECOtality, I'm looking at you!). People will want the car that fits.
I predict that L3 stations will remain rare/infrequent/expensive, and L2 will be ubiquitous/free/opportunistic. In that kind of a network, I'd want to charge twice as fast as L2. After all, your corner Starbucks isn't going to have the grid connectivity for L3. An added complication is the undecided SAE standard for L3. Fragmenting the standard could make a real useless mess, pushing more demand on L2. If more cars like the FIT and Volt come out with no L3, again, less motivation to install them.
I hope I'm wrong.
evnow
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I think it was a cost issue, but in a different way.EVDRIVER said:
They decided on a 3.3 kw charger (mainly for Japan/EU market) - and it was costly later to change it.
LEAFfan
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They better do something because the Ford Focus EV that is due out in 2011 has a 6.6 charger.
thimel
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The AeroVironment charging dock that Nissan recommends can supply 6.6 kW so no upgrade would be needed.driveleaf said:
