Ever wondered how Hot your battery can reach and still be funtional?

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knightmb

knightmb

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 12, 2015
Messages
2,212
Location
Franklin, TN
Wonder no more, I had a good opportunity to test this week. :D

I had a multiple-state trip for the family to visit relatives and it was a 640 mile round with nothing but QC the entire way.

I got the battery temperature all the way over 130F (54C) threshold due to constant QC and driving in 100F air temperature. The first thing you will notice once you start hitting the "red" zone (starts at 127F in LeafSpy I think?) on the temperature gauge is that your top end "acceleration" power starts to get reduced. The picture below was taken at 131F, so as the temperature goes past this, you start losing a bubble for every degree over 130F. So at 135F for example, the Leaf would be reduced to just 4 acceleration bubbles (still plenty of power to reach highway speed though) As the battery cools down, the acceleration bubbles slowly return. With it being over 100F outside though, it would take a long time before all power would return for acceleration and usually not before the next QC station, I still would be down 1 of 2 acceleration bubbles.

To top all that off, I will have to make the same trip in another week and it will probably be even hotter. Guess this battery is going to have literal days of roasting in human killing temperatures underneath.

And yes, my car has returned to 12 bars now :lol:
file.php

The maximum temperature I ever got was 137F for the last QC at the last leg of the trip. I was still able to reach 60 MPH with so few bubbles left (AC running the whole way also) and even though I knew my battery was baking, never had a single issue or error on the dash during the whole trip.

On the return trip, basically repeated the same process though I arrived at home at only 130F this time because the outside air temperature was in the low 90s instead of 100s I believe.

What damage did it do to the battery? Well, who knows, but it did increase my capacity and bump my battery SOH up 2%, so I guess count that as negative damage so far.... :twisted:

Before battery baking road trip:
file.php


After battery baking road trip
file.php
 
Next trip, I'll take some more screenshots, maybe I can break my record and score all temperature bars at once. On the bright side, it cools down very quickly once you finally do stop for a while. Not sure how much damage all the extreme heat is causing, but at least it will be a good case study compared to other similar year Leaf. :?
 
knightmb said:
Wonder no more, I had a good opportunity to test this week. :D

I had a multiple-state trip for the family to visit relatives and it was a 640 mile round with nothing but QC the entire way.

Before battery baking road trip:
file.php


After battery baking road trip
file.php
Click to expand...

My work proxy blocks the website you attached the files to.

Also if not in one of those images I'd be curious the route you took. Can you plot it on https://evtripplanner.com/planner/2-6/ including the Chademo locations you used and post the trip URL?
 
dhanson865 said:
knightmb said:
Wonder no more, I had a good opportunity to test this week. :D

I had a multiple-state trip for the family to visit relatives and it was a 640 mile round with nothing but QC the entire way.

Before battery baking road trip:


After battery baking road trip


My work proxy blocks the website you attached the files to.

Also if not in one of those images I'd be curious the route you took. Can you plot it on https://evtripplanner.com/planner/2-6/ including the Chademo locations you used and post the trip URL?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I have another screen-shot attached to this reply, but you can get the same image by using the plugshare trip planner to route from "Franklin, TN" to "Thomston, GA" and make sure the route near the end goes through Griffin, GA (last QC available before hitting the boonies)

I did use the link you had for the EV Trip Planner, so it can be setup the same way by dragging the route last leg onto Highway 41 in GA which produces some similar route results to what I used. Not sure about the output though, it says there is only 98 feet of elevation change for the route, but half the driving goes up and over the Appalachian Mountains for the trip.

file.php
 
knightmb said:
dhanson865 said:
knightmb said:
Wonder no more, I had a good opportunity to test this week. :D

I had a multiple-state trip for the family to visit relatives and it was a 640 mile round with nothing but QC the entire way.

Before battery baking road trip:


After battery baking road trip


My work proxy blocks the website you attached the files to.

Also if not in one of those images I'd be curious the route you took. Can you plot it on https://evtripplanner.com/planner/2-6/ including the Chademo locations you used and post the trip URL?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I have another screen-shot attached to this reply, but you can get the same image by using the plugshare trip planner to route from "Franklin, TN" to "Thomston, GA" and make sure the route near the end goes through Griffin, GA (last QC available before hitting the boonies)

I did use the link you had for the EV Trip Planner, so it can be setup the same way by dragging the route last leg onto Highway 41 in GA which produces some similar route results to what I used. Not sure about the output though, it says there is only 98 feet of elevation change for the route, but half the driving goes up and over the Appalachian Mountains for the trip.

file.php
Click to expand...

I can't see the image you posted from here.

If you edit the trip the URL changes as you add charging stops. For example

https://evtripplanner.com/planner/2-6/?id=z8fz is just the start and destination
https://evtripplanner.com/planner/2-6/?id=z8g9 adds Griffen, GA but not a charging stop
https://evtripplanner.com/planner/2-6/?id=z8hv changes the route to get to Cronic Nissan
https://evtripplanner.com/planner/2-6/?id=z8ib adds a charging stop that you might not have used

as to elevation, if you go to the details tab you'll notice that it includes something similar to 14,577 up and 14,478 down. That 98 feet on the first tab is Net not gross elevation traveled.
 
dhanson865 said:
knightmb said:
I have another screen-shot attached to this reply, but you can get the same image by using the plugshare trip planner to route from "Franklin, TN" to "Thomston, GA" and make sure the route near the end goes through Griffin, GA (last QC available before hitting the boonies)

I did use the link you had for the EV Trip Planner, so it can be setup the same way by dragging the route last leg onto Highway 41 in GA which produces some similar route results to what I used. Not sure about the output though, it says there is only 98 feet of elevation change for the route, but half the driving goes up and over the Appalachian Mountains for the trip.
Click to expand...

I can't see the image you posted from here.

If you edit the trip the URL changes as you add charging stops. For example

https://evtripplanner.com/planner/2-6/?id=z8fz is just the start and destination
https://evtripplanner.com/planner/2-6/?id=z8g9 adds Griffen, GA but not a charging stop
https://evtripplanner.com/planner/2-6/?id=z8hv changes the route to get to Cronic Nissan
https://evtripplanner.com/planner/2-6/?id=z8ib adds a charging stop that you might not have used

as to elevation, if you go to the details tab you'll notice that it includes something similar to 14,577 up and 14,478 down. That 98 feet on the first tab is Net not gross elevation traveled.
Click to expand...

I've never used the evtripplanner.com before, so I am still figuring my way around it. I didn't realize you could save the trip and make links for it, very handy.
 
knightmb said:
dhanson865 said:
knightmb said:
I have another screen-shot attached to this reply, but you can get the same image by using the plugshare trip planner to route from "Franklin, TN" to "Thomston, GA" and make sure the route near the end goes through Griffin, GA (last QC available before hitting the boonies)

I did use the link you had for the EV Trip Planner, so it can be setup the same way by dragging the route last leg onto Highway 41 in GA which produces some similar route results to what I used. Not sure about the output though, it says there is only 98 feet of elevation change for the route, but half the driving goes up and over the Appalachian Mountains for the trip.
Click to expand...

I can't see the image you posted from here.

If you edit the trip the URL changes as you add charging stops. For example

https://evtripplanner.com/planner/2-6/?id=z8fz is just the start and destination
https://evtripplanner.com/planner/2-6/?id=z8g9 adds Griffen, GA but not a charging stop
https://evtripplanner.com/planner/2-6/?id=z8hv changes the route to get to Cronic Nissan
https://evtripplanner.com/planner/2-6/?id=z8ib adds a charging stop that you might not have used

as to elevation, if you go to the details tab you'll notice that it includes something similar to 14,577 up and 14,478 down. That 98 feet on the first tab is Net not gross elevation traveled.
Click to expand...

I've never used the evtripplanner.com before, so I am still figuring my way around it. I didn't realize you could save the trip and make links for it, very handy.
Click to expand...
When you have the route map up on evtripplanner, you can click on the 'Details' button and it will show you the up and down for each leg as well as the total for the route. Clicking on the third route above and then 'Details', while the net elevation change is only 98 feet, that involves 14,186 feet of climb and 14,088 feet of descent. BTW, if you want to use if for LEAF trip planning, be sure to change the car selection to LEAF (beta) from Model S 60 19" (the default).
 
Wow, that's hot! It's getting hot everywhere. :(

I think I've read something in the warranty that if you expose it to 120+ for a certain period it could void the warranty? Might want to be careful with that and documenting it on the Internet.
 
LeafMuranoDriver said:
Wow, that's hot! It's getting hot everywhere. :(

I think I've read something in the warranty that if you expose it to 120+ for a certain period it could void the warranty? Might want to be careful with that and documenting it on the Internet.
Click to expand...
You are right, I do remember reading this but it has to be exposed to an environment for 24 hours to make the battery temperature stay over 120F, it says nothing about it reaching that temperature (or higher) through normal driving operation. Otherwise, parts of the US can reach higher temperatures during the day and driving through them would void warranties left and right. :eek:

I suspect that is to prevent someone from putting it in a body shop paint "baking" booth at 160F for days and turning the battery into soup. :D
 
That stretch of road you took(from Nashville to Atlanta, especially from Nashville to Chattanooga) is the most terrifying stretch of road I've ever driven on :shock: I drove it last fall leaving Nashville at ~7pm on a Sunday and was a total wreck 1/2 way to Chattanooga! The road was hilly and every lane of many was full of traffic, bumper to bumper, everyone going 70+ MPH, including the many many 18 wheelers :eek: I was driving a tiny Prius and had NO choice but to speed like everyone else, many times needing to go 80+ to keep out of everyone elses way. By about dusk I couldn't take it anymore, we were a ways outside of Chattanooga. I had my daughter look for an alternate route on the GPS but there wasn't really anything other than the I 24 we were on. She did find a side road(I believe 41) which I ended up taking. It was a godsend to get off the crazy I 24 and 41 was much much less traveled, but seemed to skirt the side of a mountain, with hairpin turns in what was now dark :( We were basically the only one on the road(in a way I wouldn't have minded someone ahead of me so I'd know when the next hairpin would be, or to flush out any potential deer(assuming they have deer in those neck of the woods)) but until an old old pickup pulling a trailer pulled in front of us we saw no one. The trailer seemed to have issues as sparks were flying off the rear of the trailer(quite a sight to see in the middle of the night) but the driver didn't seem to be bothered and drove at quite a high rate of speed, I had all I could do to keep up to him, again using him as a block for any potential deer.

By the time we hooked back with I 24, just outside of Chattanooga traffic had died down somewhat but we still crashed in the car at the first rest stop after getting out of TN(in GA). I was so frazzled with that stretch of road that on our way back I purposely avoided it and instead drove through much of Alabama, centered in Birmingham to get back to Nashville and beyond. I'm not sure I'd feel safe driving my Leaf on that stretch of I 24, not that I really felt safe in the Prius but at least with the Prius I didn't have to worry about running out of charge.
 
jjeff said:
That stretch of road you took(from Nashville to Atlanta, especially from Nashville to Chattanooga) is the most terrifying stretch of road I've ever driven on :shock: I drove it last fall leaving Nashville at ~7pm on a Sunday and was a total wreck 1/2 way to Chattanooga! The road was hilly and every lane of many was full of traffic, bumper to bumper, everyone going 70+ MPH, including the many many 18 wheelers :eek: I was driving a tiny Prius and had NO choice but to speed like everyone else, many times needing to go 80+ to keep out of everyone elses way. By about dusk I couldn't take it anymore, we were a ways outside of Chattanooga. I had my daughter look for an alternate route on the GPS but there wasn't really anything other than the I 24 we were on. She did find a side road(I believe 41) which I ended up taking. It was a godsend to get off the crazy I 24 and 41 was much much less traveled, but seemed to skirt the side of a mountain, with hairpin turns in what was now dark :( We were basically the only one on the road(in a way I wouldn't have minded someone ahead of me so I'd know when the next hairpin would be, or to flush out any potential deer(assuming they have deer in those neck of the woods)) but until an old old pickup pulling a trailer pulled in front of us we saw no one. The trailer seemed to have issues as sparks were flying off the rear of the trailer(quite a sight to see in the middle of the night) but the driver didn't seem to be bothered and drove at quite a high rate of speed, I had all I could do to keep up to him, again using him as a block for any potential deer.

By the time we hooked back with I 24, just outside of Chattanooga traffic had died down somewhat but we still crashed in the car at the first rest stop after getting out of TN(in GA). I was so frazzled with that stretch of road that on our way back I purposely avoided it and instead drove through much of Alabama, centered in Birmingham to get back to Nashville and beyond. I'm not sure I'd feel safe driving my Leaf on that stretch of I 24, not that I really felt safe in the Prius but at least with the Prius I didn't have to worry about running out of charge.
Click to expand...

lol, never come to the west then. Interstate speed limit is 75mph, drivers go 80-100mph, even the 18-wheelers. And it is by a mountain going N/S and literally through the mountains going E/W. If a little stretch of the south scared you, there's no hope on the front range.
 
I just set the cruise control for whatever the speed limit is and don't worry about all the speeders. Even at 70 mph I am often passing other big rigs, and other vehicles going much slower. When I reach the mountains, the speed limit is lowered to 55 so I just set the cruise for 60 and pass all the same big rigs that blew by me earlier on the way up. :D On the way down from the mountains, I just set the cruise again for the speed limit and cruise the rest of the way to Atlanta. Compared to the rest of the TN drivers, the GA drivers are crazy. As we close in on Atlanta and the speed limit is either 65 or 60, I see people speeding down the HOV lane with one driver, no passenger, doing looks like 90mph. Only to see the same people pulled over by the police later on. :lol:

The best advice is just to ignore them, set the cruise control, let them pass if they must. I don't get angry when I pass a slower vehicle, so the other people that insist on driving +90mph to wherever they are going, I just let them go because they are probably locals anyway. I've often get a line of other "sane" drivers follow me for miles until the next charge station because they want a stable, enjoyable speed as well. Sometimes, I get 4 or 5 vehicles behind me. I know they can pass anytime they like when the lane is clear but they just follow because a nice stable speed is better than constantly speeding up, slowing down, passing, watching for cops (because you are speeding), etc.

I agree, lot of bad and impatient drivers out there, but plenty of good drivers too. Just gotta stick together. :D
 
Did you make any effort to not use the top 10% or 20% of the battery? I read that most of the heat comes from the top part of the charge. Best to fully drain the battery as possible and charge just enough to get to the next stop. Great to see the LEAF going out for a road trip ;)
 
smkettner said:
Did you make any effort to not use the top 10% or 20% of the battery? I read that most of the heat comes from the top part of the charge. Best to fully drain the battery as possible and charge just enough to get to the next stop. Great to see the LEAF going out for a road trip ;)
Click to expand...
It depends on how far away each charging stop is. Since you don't wan to run out of power just short of the next charge, I always do at-least 80%. Most of the blink stations don't even charge to the amount you set. So often if I set a blink station to charge to 90%, it will often stop at 82% or 88%. The other EVgo/Chargepoint stations, they will let you charge to 100% if you let them (though I never do, cost too much to wait that long) and I usually stop them right after 80%. Usually I arrive at each charging stop right after the first LBW on the dash. I like to leave some extra margin of error in case the station is down and I need to drive to another one on the other side of town.

It's true that if I charge to near 100% every stop, the battery temperature would probably be even higher. I think that the high outdoor temperature and constant driving can't help but keep raising the temperature when you count in all the QC stops. I basically make 5 QC stops on the route. I could do less if there were as many QC stops at gas stations, but only the future will tell. It would be wonderful to drive the route all the way down to VLBW and then go pull over somewhere for a QC each time. :mrgreen:
 
2k1Toaster said:
<snip>
lol, never come to the west then. Interstate speed limit is 75mph, drivers go 80-100mph, even the 18-wheelers. And it is by a mountain going N/S and literally through the mountains going E/W. If a little stretch of the south scared you, there's no hope on the front range.
Click to expand...
Most people drive as fast as feels safe to them if they think they can get away with it, regardless of the posted limit. Utah monitored speeds on I-80 west of SLC before and after they raised the speed limit from 75 to 80 mph, and they found that driving speeds didn't change after they raised it. The flow of traffic speed was 82-84 mph before and after. One of the means suggested for setting 'rational speed limits' is known as the 85th percentile method: http://www.lsp.org/pdf/troopc85thSpeed.pdf
 

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