Nissan Won't Honor Capacity Warranty, Says I Am 4 Days Late. 8 Bars

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Jeffoff

Member
Joined
May 19, 2016
Messages
9
Hello Fellow Leaf Owners, I am seeking advice as this is heading to BBB Arbitration in 2 weeks. One March 27, 2016, I noticed my Wife's Leaf had dropped to 8 bars. I had 43,000 miles. I was not mentally in tune with all the knowledge you all have on watching voltages, and warranty rules. I am just a Happy Leaf owner going about my life. I made a mistake in thinking I had 7 years from purchase date. I did know the mileage limit was 60,000, so no problem there. So busy as life is, I did not bring Leaf down until April 7, 2016 to ask about battery warranty. Turns out deadline was 5 years, and expired 5 days earlier on April 2, 2016! The dealer did not tell me then to have battery tested. He instead handed me a quote for about $7,300 to replace the battery! I then called and the The Leaf Nazi Dept. and Chris denied the warranty replacement! I stated to him the circumstances, and nothing would change their attitude on doing the right thing. So I asked for a secondary consideration with the Chris. He stated first I must have the car tested at a dealership. Is aid they nver told me that. So I went to Concord Nissan in Ca. They told me there was a 5 day delay until April 12th. because they had to Epoxy their garage floor! I went back on April 12th 2016, and paid the $150 to have them tell me only that it had 8 bars. I asked for additional information such as CAN YOU PLEASE PRINT OUT THE DAY IT DROPPED TO 8 BARS?! No sir, all we can share is that it is at 8 bars! I said I already know that before I got here. So I called Leaf Nazi Dept and spoke to Tiffany. She said she would relay that car was tested to Chris, and to wait 3 days for a response. 3 days later Tiffany calls and says they need 3 more days to consider. Then after 3 additional days, Tiffany calls and say she needs an additional 3 days! I asked what is going on? She states they made a mistake and had been contacting Walnut Creek Nissan instead of Concord Nissan! Tiffany said she needed 3 more days. So finally after a 9 day delay, Chris calls and states they will deny the warranty because I did not perform maintenance recently! I said what are you talking about? The car needed no maintenance! It has new brakes, new tires, and had its last battery test a year ago! Plus it had regular battery evaluations yearly! He was not listening , and they never listen. I told him I had run Leaf Spy and it showed only 5 Quick Charges in 5 years! That shows excellent care! I said why don't you simply go by the date the computer has within it showing the bars dropped to 8 on (or before) March 27th? He said we can't do that. You must have it evaluated at a dealer WITHIN the 5 years. He again pointed out I was 5 days late. I corrected him, I said one day was a Sunday, so I am 4 working days late, I said do you also consider that you just delayed me 9 days to respond? And your Concord Dealer also delayed me 5 days to even look at car? How about those14 days of delaying me? How come Nissan can be late as they please, but the customer, who should be the one treated well, can't be late in showing face here for a warranty? I said that's ridiculous in todays modern electronic world, you can't tell when the bar dropped from the computer? I said the warranty has no wordage at all stating Car Must Be At Dealer Within 5 Years! It only states that bar must drop within 5 years and before 60,000 miles, which it certainly did! Honor the warranty or I'll post on every blog in the world stating Nissan is corrupt and dishonest! He did not care. So I called the BBB and opened a case that same day. 3 days later Nissan called and offered to pay half the cost of a new battery! So my cost would be $3,600! I said no. I asked her again to go by the date it dropped. I said do the right thing here! Be honest! You know and I know that if this was a $25 item, Nissan would have taken care of it fast. But because it is the main battery and thousands, Nissan is skirting their responsibility, and trying to screw the customer on a technicality. Does anyone have any input or suggestions on how to get Nissan to honor the law?? I am going to Arbitration in 2 weeks around first week of June 2016. Thanks Jeff [email protected]
 
Jeffoff said:
Hello Fellow Leaf Owners, I am seeking advice as this is heading to BBB Arbitration in 2 weeks. One March 27, 2016


The process is a pain but you will win, rightfully so at the hearing. Just be polite and state the facts.

Good luck!
 
So sorry to hear about the troubles. Definitely BS the dealer came out with a $7,300 quote to fix it and had all the delays.

You may win a new battery if you keep fighting it. If Nissan was willing to pay half at this point, they may pay the whole thing once BBB gets involved.
 
Any chance of you still having one of those e-mails you get from Nissan Connect stating " charged to 8 of 8 bars".
Although they usually are a one day delay themselves, that may be the proof required to establish that it had dropped the bar before April 2, 2016.
Good luck and keep us informed.
By the way, what are your amp hours displayed on Leafspy?
 
ElectricEddy said:
Any chance of you still having one of those e-mails you get from Nissan Connect stating " charged to 8 of 8 bars".
Although they usually are a one day delay themselves, that may be the proof required to establish that it had dropped the bar before April 2, 2016.
Huh? I wouldn’t think any of those emails would contain capacity bars. Even with capacity bars lost, the # of fuel bars is still 12 and a car will still charge to 12 fuel bars.
 
Regarding Emails from Nissan Connect. I never had that set up. But I will look into it. I did a scan with a borrowed App my friend, and a previous Leaf owner, had on hand. I think I scanned it when battery was not all the way charged too. (i'm not normally this unorganized, but all through this whole ordeal I had been dealing with my brother with MS transferring back and forth from ER at Hospital to Board and care, and such!) Leaf Spy stated these: AHr= 43.24 SOH= 65% Hx= 44.81 391.58 Volts 0.5A odo=43,151 mi 5 QCs & 3016 L1/L2s
 
cwerdna said:
ElectricEddy said:
Any chance of you still having one of those e-mails you get from Nissan Connect stating " charged to 8 of 8 bars".
Although they usually are a one day delay themselves, that may be the proof required to establish that it had dropped the bar before April 2, 2016.
Huh? I wouldn’t think any of those emails would contain capacity bars. Even with capacity bars lost, the # of fuel bars is still 12 and a car will still charge to 12 fuel bars.
The last one sent to me said" Lithy is charged 10 of 12 bars" , assuming 10 being fuel bars and 12 being capacity bars.
 
ElectricEddy said:
cwerdna said:
ElectricEddy said:
Any chance of you still having one of those e-mails you get from Nissan Connect stating " charged to 8 of 8 bars".
Although they usually are a one day delay themselves, that may be the proof required to establish that it had dropped the bar before April 2, 2016.
Huh? I wouldn’t think any of those emails would contain capacity bars. Even with capacity bars lost, the # of fuel bars is still 12 and a car will still charge to 12 fuel bars.
The last one sent to me said" Lithy is charged 10 of 12 bars" , assuming 10 being fuel bars and 12 being capacity bars.
I doubt the 12 bars refers to capacity bars. Why would it?

100% charge is 12 fuel bars, regardless of how many capacity bars are lost.

Wouldn't it be weird to receive a messages like "the vehicle's battery is currently at 12 of 10 bars"?

My emails (on my car w/12 capacity bars tend to be one of these, since I often use the midnight to midnight 80% timer trick):
Charging stopped

Owned LEAF stopped charging. The vehicle's battery is currently at 9 of 12 bars.
--------------
Charging complete

Owned LEAF is now fully charged.
----------
or from long ago w/a previous Leaf w/the older email format:
charging stopped

Blue Leaf stopped charging. the vehicle's battery is currently at 10 of 12 bars.
-----------
charging complete

Blue Leaf is now charged to 12 of 12 bars.
 
Re KillaWhat Comment. I had a whole string of bogus reasons thrown at me by this guy Chris in Leaf Consumer Affairs Dept.

First of all, Chris is programmed not as a normal Consumer Affairs employee, you know the type that has a goal to remedy, or resolve a complaint. Chris is programmed to deny, deny,deny. He has no power to listen and consider any real world circumstances. He is trained to say No, and that's it. You can tell as your trying to have an intelligent conversation with him, that he simply is not listening. There is no response to any valid point you make. His job is to avoid fulfilling a battery warranty when there is any way they can avoid it.

For example: I asked what if a warranty ends on a Sunday, and the Nissan shop is closed? He responds, We require the battery be checked at a dealership within the 5 years to honor the battery replacement. Then no further comment! So I said how about my own circumstance where I wanted my battery checked on April 7th at Concord Nissan, and your shop stated the garage is closed due to epoxy coating the floors until April 12th? He responds with exact answer! We require the battery be checked at a dealership within the 5 years to honor the battery replacement.

I asked did you ever read the capacity settlement? No response. I said it states that battery must drop to 8 bars within 60,000 Miles, OR, within 5 years of time from purchase date. I then stated: IT DOES NOT State Anywhere That Car Must Be Tested At A Nissan Dealership Within 5 Years! Is states only that the battery must drop within 5 years. MY Battery Did That! Can't you understand this? I said check the car computer! Again, he repeats the same response. I said what is the next level of consideration, because you are not following the law.

Nissan can't play games like this when they accept a settlement to make right a wrong. We were guinea pigs to be the first to by the Leaf. The Leaf was sold with a defective weak battery. Nissan was sued and to avoid a loss agreed to replace the bad batteries. Now you are going to deny me, a victim of your bad product? Its a safety issue. If it was bad fuel injection device stalling me on freeway causing me to die, that is serious yes? But if its my car battery driving me only 50 miles instead of the promised 85, and stalling me on freeway, that's OK with Nissan? Do you really expect customers to be a SLAVE to that tiny bar graph on the the dashboard? Fearful that if they don't catch it in time and race like hell to the dealership, that they then are handed a $7,300 estimate for the battery they should have been politely given a few days earlier for free? Or do you want your EV customers to safely pay attention to the road. Because that is the message Nissan is telling the world! Don't enjoy and love you Nissan Leaf, instead be a slave to it!

No comment from Chris... silence. I ask again, who can look at this case deeper, beyond you? He says how many miles did I have? 43,150 now. And when was the last battery test? I said last year. Every year it was tested. He asks are you the original owner? I said No, but what does that matter? He says we consider these things if we are to re-consider your situation! I said it does not matter. I asked, does the warranty state it is not transferable? He says no. So why in the world would you even ask that? I bought this car knowing the battery had already dropped 2 bars, but the seller assured me Nissan has that covered. They got my back, they will warranty it if the bars drop 2 more and replace the whole battery if needed. I bought under that notion. That promise. Chris then asks did I have the car battery maintenance done? I said what the hell are you talking about? The battery requires ZERO maintenance! It sits there doing nothing. It charges and discharges, no water to be checked. No oil change. Nothing. Why would that matter? He says we here at Nissan consider that when evaluating if you took good care of the car. I said it had new brakes, new tires, and every battery check recommended. Along with other check ups from Nissan. The previous owner had it perfect for me, there was no maintenance to be done!!!

He then asks if I had the 8 bars verified. I said no, not yet. I said Walnut Creek and Concord both did not mention that as a requirement. I said I am waiting now for a test at Concord though, but they are epoxying the floors there until 12th. I again asked why don't you ask me when I saw bar drop? Why are you not interested in finding a way to make this work? I sense you are only running through the motions of considering my circumstances. What if this was a $20 item, would you drag me through this process, or simply say "Oh sorry Mr. Hale about the lack of service you got today. I understand no one stares at their dash to notice a bar drop, You were so close sir anyhow,. Lets get that part swapped out for you." No, not Nissan. Nissan has already allotted the funds to correct their failure to swap batteries, yet they drag us through this stress.

This is why I hate Nissan. Such a huge car company failing to do the right thing. Its shameful. I talked to a couple Judges and our top D.A. here at the Superior Court where I work, they said fight it, and they would assist with tips. My goal is to teach Nissan a lesson to be honest now. Its funny, we buy hundreds of these leafs for our carpool to be more green. I can look at row after row of them in our garage. Yet, this is how they treat their customers! I will find a way to get more info out of the car to prove bar drop date. Oh, one more thing I did tell Chris is that I did Leaf scan and car only showed 5 quick charges in 5 years. I asked do you know what a quick charge is? Silence... I said it means I was very gentle with this battery! No fast DC charges Chris. DC charges speed up the battery failure. This car had only 1 per year! Do you consider that in your re-evaluation. Silence...
 
cwerdna said:
ElectricEddy said:
cwerdna said:
Huh? I wouldn’t think any of those emails would contain capacity bars. Even with capacity bars lost, the # of fuel bars is still 12 and a car will still charge to 12 fuel bars.
The last one sent to me said" Lithy is charged 10 of 12 bars" , assuming 10 being fuel bars and 12 being capacity bars.
I doubt the 12 bars refers to capacity bars. Why would it?

100% charge is 12 fuel bars, regardless of how many capacity bars are lost.

Wouldn't it be weird to receive a messages like "the vehicle's battery is currently at 12 of 10 bars"?

My emails (on my car w/12 capacity bars tend to be one of these, since I often use the midnight to midnight 80% timer trick):
Charging stopped

Owned LEAF stopped charging. The vehicle's battery is currently at 9 of 12 bars.
--------------
Charging complete

Owned LEAF is now fully charged.
----------
or from long ago w/a previous Leaf w/the older email format:
charging stopped

Blue Leaf stopped charging. the vehicle's battery is currently at 10 of 12 bars.
-----------
charging complete

Blue Leaf is now charged to 12 of 12 bars.
Just reaching for some sort of proof for jefoff , wasn't aware it only referred to fuel bars, cheers.
 
Jeffoff,

First I feel your frustration and understand your anger.

Unfortunatly for you Nissan has no legal obligation to honor the warranty unless you had them physically confirm 8 bars before the 5 year mark.

Manufactures occasionally will bend the rules for original owners under internal "Goodwill" policy. I've had Lexus replace seat leather under "goodwill". The service writer and region rep justified it as I was original owner and also owned 2 other Lexus cars at the time.

BBB arbitrator may be kind to you but keep your fingers crossed. Even the BBB AUTO LINE requires that "warranty claims must be received before expiration of the coverage period."

My advice to you is to be VERY VERY POLITE at the hearing. If you pi$$ them off they will give you everything you are legally entitled to, which is nothing. If you come across as polite you have a better chance of prevailing.

I say this from experience being on both sides of the fence. I'm a retired region service manager of a high end computer manufacture. I've bent the rules several times for nice people and replaced equipment costing $100k or more. For nasty people my line is "rest assured I will make sure you get everything you're entitled to" then under my breath I say to myself and nothing more.

I've also been successful twice with Florida Lemon law, once with a 1997 Oldsmoblie and once with a 2002 Ford Expedition.
 
While I agree Nissan should do something as it is just unreasonable, I also agree that you have no legal leg to stand on.

You noticed the problem on Mar 27th before the warranty expired. However you chose to not go to the dealership right away, and instead waited. The wait was compounded because of the flooring problem, but had you have gone there immediately, no problem.

In my opinion, if you had arrived late on Mar 27th to find the shop effectively closed for re-flooring until after your warranty expiration date, you'd be covered because they made the warranty impossible to achieve in due time. That is a federal (in the US) law with warranties, they can't be so convoluted or impossible to get that they are effectively not usable. But I would say a 5-6 days of stalling without reason, is what hurts your case.

And as pointed out previously, the questions about original owner and maintenance are standard for dealership warranty customers. If you are the original owner, Nissan already made their money off of you and might again in the future. If you do all the maintenance and little work done at the dealer, you are just lining their pockets with cash (a.k.a. "stealership" prices) and providing them with the hardest part of selling a car, getting a potential customer through the door. Again this gives them an incentive to keep you, so you can be poached again in the future.

There have been instances with Toyota and the Prius where battery packs have failed 5K miles past the 100K mark and Toyota has paid for 100% of the costs. Cases where they've failed 20K, or the highest was closer to almost 70K over warranty, and they paid for some of it. Like half the cost, or they pay for the pack, you pay for installation, that sort of arrangement. So it is very common for Toyota/Lexus/Scion to do this, but Nissan is not known for it. This is my first Nissan but a few coworkers have or have had various Nissans and all have had the same issue when it comes to warranty work.

In my case, I had parking lot vandalism to my car when it was new, I still had temp tags on it. Scratches and dents down the whole passenger side. It took Nissan over 3 months to get the part in so that the repair shop could fix my car. I was without my leaf for 3 months, and I got nothing. No reimbursement and not even an apology. When the part finally did arrive, they acted as though I should be grateful I got a new part for my car at all! For me, not having it was just annoying as it was my new toy and I just had to drive my other cars around. But for other people, not having their car for a quarter of a year and having to continue paying insurance and financing payments on it could be a huge problem.

The only Nissan car that interests me is the Leaf. And now, I don't care. I think next year I might get a Tesla and park the Leaf. I don't even know when or where I would drive it if I got a Tesla, maybe a good loaner car for people when they visit from out of town...
 
Long shot, but has the OP confirmed the actual in-service date (when car was delivered at purchase) is actually the same date that Nissan has on record? I seem to recall seeing a post or two where Nissan had an earlier date on record than when they actually purchased the car.
 
First off, Thank You for your post! I really appreciate the input from all of you. As per Veezer question. Yes, I confirmed that the date they are going by is the date that the car was accepted by first owner and driven off lot. The car was actually purchased a couple days earlier, but not yet given to new owner. So I have no problem with that date being April 2, 2011, it matches my paperwork.
 
As per 2k1Toaster comments. Thank You! Good insight. I could kick myself for not going down sooner. But in my mind I thought I had plenty of time. I remember the seller telling me 7 years. But I confused the 7 year / 100,000 battery failure warranty with the 5 year/60,000 mile warranty. Plus that week I was dealing with family issues that come up every holiday with my disabled Brother with MS. Long story short, He creates real havoc at every holiday which involves my time. Whether its Ambulances responding to drag him out of his hoarded mess trailer, or falling into a self induced seizure on Christmas day, where I must spend the day at ER of a hospital. This year I was arranging transfer from Board and Care to ER then back again, with daily activity which consumes all thought. But Nissan and the world has no interest in that sort of life events. All that matters is that date.

I understand that Nissan did not make a whole lot off me, but you would think of the damage one person could do by getting this treatment from them. i had always owned Toyotas for some reason. This was my first Nissan. It certainly will be my last. And if this battery does not get replaced as it should, I will spend the rest of my days discouraging any and every person I know from buying a Nissan. The long term cost to them will be significantly more than simply replacing the battery to shut my trap up! I even thought of posting signage on back of my Leaf telling all to not Buy A Leaf! Nissan Won't honor warranty fairly. Or Battery range is crap, Don't buy a Leaf! I already spoke to out fleet manager at my work. Encouraging him to buy more of their Fords instead on Nissan's. We have many EVs. Even Rav4 EV with Tesla guts. I too will be wanting that new affordable Tesla. And If Nissan updates the Leaf, I will do my part to state to people why the battery range is being misrepresented by Nissan from the start. You really hate a company when they screw you and are dishonest. I don't take this lightly. I would much rather speak highly of the good features the Leaf has, instead they have created a problem with me. Anyhow thanks for the advice. You people are great sharing what I did right and wrong. It is very helpful to me.
 
Jeffoff said:
As per 2k1Toaster comments. Thank You! Good insight. I could kick myself for not going down sooner. But in my mind I thought I had plenty of time. I remember the seller telling me 7 years. But I confused the 7 year / 100,000 battery failure warranty with the 5 year/60,000 mile warranty.
The battery defect warranty isn't 7 years either. It's 8 years/100K miles.
 
Jeffoff said:
I asked did you ever read the capacity settlement? No response. I said it states that battery must drop to 8 bars within 60,000 Miles, OR, within 5 years of time from purchase date. I then stated: IT DOES NOT State Anywhere That Car Must Be Tested At A Nissan Dealership Within 5 Years! Is states only that the battery must drop within 5 years. MY Battery Did That! Can't you understand this? I said check the car computer! Again, he repeats the same response. I said what is the next level of consideration, because you are not following the law.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=13192 says

"If your vehicle’s battery capacity level gauge is already displaying eight (8) or fewer bars of capacity prior to the above referenced software update (and within the first 5 years or 60,000 miles, whichever comes first), your Nissan dealer will verify this condition and arrange for the repair or replacement of the lithium-ion battery in accordance with the terms of the warranty."

Jeffoff said:
That promise. Chris then asks did I have the car battery maintenance done? I said what the hell are you talking about? The battery requires ZERO maintenance! It sits there doing nothing. It charges and discharges, no water to be checked. No oil change. Nothing. Why would that matter? He says we here at Nissan consider that when evaluating if you took good care of the car. I said it had new brakes, new tires, and every battery check recommended. Along with other check ups from Nissan. The previous owner had it perfect for me, there was no maintenance to be done!!!
In the'11 Leaf warranty booklet, produced before ANY capacity warranty existed
"MAINTENANCE , DATA ACCESS, AND
RECORDS
As a condition of this warranty, you are responsible for
properly using, maintaining and caring for your vehicle
as outlined in your OWNER’S MANUAL and your
NISSAN LEAF SERVICE & MAINTENANCE GUIDE,
and maintaining copies of all maintenance records &
receipts for review by Nissan. You are required to perform
annual EV Battery Usage Report at intervals of 12
months, 24 months, 36 months, 48 months, 60 months,
72 months, and 84 months. These EV Battery Usage
Reports can be performed by a Nissan LEAF certified
dealer or any qualified repair shop facility. The 12 and
24 month EV Battery Usage Report will be performed at
no charge to the customer, provided the work is done at
a Nissan LEAF certified dealer. Any damage or failure
resulting from a failure to have these required services
performed, or that could have been avoided had these
services been performed, is not covered under warranty.
Any damage or failure resulting from a failure to
have these required services performed, or that could
have been avoided had these services been performed,
is not covered under warranty.
You are also required to provide consent to give Nissan
access to data stored on vehicle systems for the purpose
of vehicle diagnosis and repair. Failure to do so is
likely to result in denial of warranty coverage.
Evidence of the performance of the required maintenance
should be kept and presented as proof of such
maintenance in connection with related warranty repairs.
To assist you in maintaining appropriate records,
the maintenance log located in your NISSAN LEAF
SERVICE & MAINTENANCE GUIDE can be used along
with supporting repair invoices, receipts and other such
records."

What Nissan says in printed documentation has precedence over whatever some other guy (e.g. previous owner) told you.
Flyct said:
Jeffoff,

First I feel your frustration and understand your anger.

Unfortunatly for you Nissan has no legal obligation to honor the warranty unless you had them physically confirm 8 bars before the 5 year mark.

Manufactures occasionally will bend the rules for original owners under internal "Goodwill" policy. I've had Lexus replace seat leather under "goodwill".
Yep.
Jeffoff said:
He then asks if I had the 8 bars verified. I said no, not yet. I said Walnut Creek and Concord both did not mention that as a requirement. I said I am waiting now for a test at Concord though, but they are epoxying the floors there until 12th. I again asked why don't you ask me when I saw bar drop? Why are you not interested in finding a way to make this work?
Nissan doesn't and cannot own those dealers. If I were in your shoes and running out of time, I'd have made every effort to get it to a Nissan dealer's service department that was open before the 5 years or mileage expired.
 
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