30 kWh battery in 11-12 or 13-15 Leaf?

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Flyct

Well-known member
Leaf Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
Messages
647
Location
Bradenton, Florida, US
I wonder if Nissan will offer a 30 kWh battery for those who will be willing to pay for out of warranty battery replacement. Or even better, for those who qualify for warranty replacement the option to upgrade to a 30 kWh if willing to pay the difference.
 
I was talking with a top Nissan official about that, and it seems promising that larger range batteries may be offered for older leafs. I surmised that they need every one of their 30kWh batteries for their new production run of 2016. He was in agreement with that statement to him. He also addressed my comment about software compatibility which he responded that he believes that it can be made compatible. I also mentioned about how the lizard battery was not holding up better in hot climates and he seemed surprised by that. Of course, part of my conversation along that line was when are they going to engineer active cooling into these packs. I did not get a answer to that one.
 
That is a great news, I hoped to hear sometime: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21242

Nissan better makes and official announcement soon. For me keeping the 2015 lease, depends mainly on a clear battery upgrade path. How can I make that clear the them?
 
Firetruck41 said:
I doubt we will see a upgrade path from Nissan for 30kwh battery into our pre 2016 Leafs, anytime soon. Years away, if ever is my suspicion.

You probably wouldn't be very sure of that statement if you had been present at this meeting. I stressed to their Rep how important it is for their secondary market to be successful with their used cars, and it was obvious to me that they already considered it very important. I believe the 30kWh battery will be offered when available and a price set. The thing I am concerned with is that the existing 30kWh is not more durable. And because they are not acknowledging that, it makes me concerned for my future because of the batteries that they will offer with their heat degradation issues.
 
Corporate reps don't like to state flatly, in public, that they aren't going to address your concerns. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it appeared that this Rep implied that they were going to make packs available, with higher capacity, for older Leafs. What would surprise me, along with most others here, would be Nissan actually doing just that. The most I expect to see is an adapter kit to use the Lizard pack with the Gen I Leaf. That would at least come close to allowing that Leaf to perform as promised when it was released - maybe not in range, but at least in longevity.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Corporate reps don't like to state flatly, in public, that they aren't going to address your concerns. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it appeared that this Rep implied that they were going to make packs available, with higher capacity, for older Leafs. What would surprise me, along with most others here, would be Nissan actually doing just that. The most I expect to see is an adapter kit to use the Lizard pack with the Gen I Leaf. That would at least come close to allowing that Leaf to perform as promised when it was released - maybe not in range, but at least in longevity.

Do you mean a cooling adapter kit? Because we are already putting lizard packs in 2011. I was lucky to have a private meeting. ;) I was able to discuss many issues.
 
Pardon my doubt but a number of us have been at "big meetings" with "top Nissan officials" in the past, where many things were alluded to and even promised, and most of them never came to pass. So, I take it with a very large grain of salt!

Evoforce said:
You probably wouldn't be very sure of that statement if you had been present at this meeting.
 
Do you mean a cooling adapter kit? Because we are already putting lizard packs in 2011.

I mean a factory adapter kit that will let a leaf-Certified Nissan dealership install a new Lizard pack in a 2011-2012 Leaf. If that's already available, then that's all I expect to see.
 
TomT said:
Pardon my doubt but a number of us have been at "big meetings" with "top Nissan officials" in the past, where many things were alluded to and even promised, and most of them never came to pass. So, I take it with a very large grain of salt!

Evoforce said:
You probably wouldn't be very sure of that statement if you had been present at this meeting.

However Tom, just like any relationship, it is always a work in progress. If you give up the hope to change things for the better, you may contribute to the failure of not having things the way you want. Almost like a self fulfilling prophecy. I choose not to expect the worst, but I believe feeling positive can have it's advantages. In engineering, many times you are told it can't be done or it's not worthwhile to attempt to do something or it will never pay off. And maybe they decided it wasn't a good enough solution or it wasn't time well spent or it in the end didn't match up well enough with their needs. I could go on... but if you lost the desire to be a part of that process or the belief in the process itself, you could lose a lot of yourself if you have no faith to overcome obstacles that are placed in your way. A feeling of somehow I'm going to make it happen, as opposed to (it will never happen) is a powerful advantage of those who make change. My glass is half full and I hope to top it off soon... but I'm ok I've still got half a glass! As opposed to... Oh My! My glass is half empty! I might just as well forget about ever seeing it full again...
 
TomT said:
Pardon my doubt but a number of us have been at "big meetings" with "top Nissan officials" in the past, where many things were alluded to and even promised, and most of them never came to pass. So, I take it with a very large grain of salt!
OTOH, the meeting in Dec 2011 (I was there too) w/comments that began with http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=155461#p155461 where many suggestions were given and the Nissan quality guy kept drilling down on "what's wrong w/the GOM?" DID result in many improvements that appeared starting w/the '13 model year.

They included requests for a % SoC display, a darker interior color since the light color got dirty too easily, an optional better stereo, smaller rear head restraints, and a light in the charge port area. All of those got implemented. I don't recall if there were any others that got implemented.

Whether Nissan decided to do it solely based upon SF BayLEAF's requests or whether the group was just another input/data point (which included feedback from other folks), we may never know. But still...
 
Evoforce said:
Firetruck41 said:
I doubt we will see a upgrade path from Nissan for 30kwh battery into our pre 2016 Leafs, anytime soon. Years away, if ever is my suspicion.

You probably wouldn't be very sure of that statement if you had been present at this meeting. I stressed to their Rep how important it is for their secondary market to be successful with their used cars, and it was obvious to me that they already considered it very important. I believe the 30kWh battery will be offered when available and a price set. The thing I am concerned with is that the existing 30kWh is not more durable. And because they are not acknowledging that, it makes me concerned for my future because of the batteries that they will offer with their heat degradation issues.

It took them something like 2 or 3 years to respond to the concept that people even wanted 24 kWh replacement packs. They literally didn't have a price set and no method to sell you one at all in the beginning.

If they offer a 30 kWh pack for 2011-2015 cars before a similar 2 to 3 year delay it'd be an improvement. I'd be very surprised to see it in 2016. If they do it in 2017 it be a major improvement but even then it'll be overshadowed by the Bolt / Model 3 buzz.

More likely they wait until Leaf 2 is out and 60 kWh packs are common and then offer 30 kWh upgrades on the old cars. And we'll have to yell and scream at Nissan every chance we get just to get that.
 
Where should we yell and scream? I want to make sure my shouts are aimed at the engineering ears and not the accounting toes of the nissan creature...
 
dhanson865 said:
More likely they wait until Leaf 2 is out and 60 kWh packs are common and then offer 30 kWh upgrades on the old cars. And we'll have to yell and scream at Nissan every chance we get just to get that.
That will be perfect for me. Once the 60 kWh batteries are more prevalent (exist at all other than at Tesla), it would be really nice to see a low cost upgrade of the degraded 24 kWh battery to a new 30 kWh version. And yes, I mean low cost. Putting a new $5500 battery into a 10-yr old Leaf worth less than $5000 won't attract many. The costs need to get down to $2000-$3000. Even then, it won't attract many unless the price of gas gets back over $3-$4/gal. Personally, I'll drive mine down to a capacity around 8-10 kWh, maybe even 5 kWh. Ultimately, the annual EV tax will probably force me to scrap it. Right now my gasser is essentially unused, 20+ yr old, and has minimal cost to register or insure. I only keep it around because it is so cheap and I might need to run to the dump or something.
 
Reddy said:
dhanson865 said:
More likely they wait until Leaf 2 is out and 60 kWh packs are common and then offer 30 kWh upgrades on the old cars. And we'll have to yell and scream at Nissan every chance we get just to get that.
That will be perfect for me. Once the 60 kWh batteries are more prevalent (exist at all other than at Tesla), it would be really nice to see a low cost upgrade of the degraded 24 kWh battery to a new 30 kWh version. And yes, I mean low cost. Putting a new $5500 battery into a 10-yr old Leaf worth less than $5000 won't attract many. The costs need to get down to $2000-$3000. Even then, it won't attract many unless the price of gas gets back over $3-$4/gal. Personally, I'll drive mine down to a capacity around 8-10 kWh, maybe even 5 kWh. Ultimately, the annual EV tax will probably force me to scrap it. Right now my gasser is essentially unused, 20+ yr old, and has minimal cost to register or insure. I only keep it around because it is so cheap and I might need to run to the dump or something.

It really depends a lot on the overall condition of your car. How well the rest of the components have held up and how well you have taken care of it along with if it still suits your needs.
 
I just totaled my 2015 Leaf SV and would like to salvage the battery, i.e., get some money for the battery. Any thoughts how to advertise a battery? Craigslist? Cars.com?
 
woodward said:
I just totaled my 2015 Leaf SV and would like to salvage the battery, i.e., get some money for the battery. Any thoughts how to advertise a battery? Craigslist? Cars.com?

Right here works!

Sent you a PM. Check the private message link at the top of the page.
 
I think it'll come down to supply and demand. It there is a reasonable profit to be made, someone will do it. Perhaps even manufacturers outside the auto industry.
 
This has been asked and answered many times already so it seems that many if the knowledgeable guys just let these threads lie but it's not a question of harping on a factory rep to "start allowing upgrades" or any such thing. the 30kWh battery requires all new BMS and various other electronic control modifications. You can't just put it in just because the mounting holes happen to fit the frame.
 
sendler2112 said:
This has been asked and answered many times already so it seems that many if the knowledgeable guys just let these threads lie but it's not a question of harping on a factory rep to "start allowing upgrades" or any such thing. the 30kWh battery requires all new BMS and various other electronic control modifications. You can't just put it in just because the mounting holes happen to fit the frame.

Nissan has standardized the battery pack for a purpose, and has an adapter kit so the pack will fit in the 2011/12 models. The BMS is part of the battery pack. The main issue is the required use of the Consult tool and a special key card to mate the BMS with the car. Nissan is preventing the installation of the bigger battery packs in the older cars, by controlling the key cards and battery inventory. There is a user claiming that Nissan has started using the larger packs for warranty replacements in the older cars, due to depletion of the smaller pack inventories, but this has not yet been confirmed.
 
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