Say it aint so... no 80% charge settings for 2014's ???

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SDLEAFER

Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Messages
7
Hi,

Well I just purchased a 2014 Leaf, love it so far but only had it a few days...

I have been looking everywhere for how to set it to the long life batter mode where it will only charge the batteries to 80%...

It appears this feature is on the 2013's and the 2015's but it doesn't show up on my 2014 menu...

Do I need a software update ??

Any help you can offer on exactly how I would set my 2014 Leaf to only charge to 80% would be greatly appreciated ...

Thanks
 
Nissan removed the "Long Life" (80%) mode for 2014 and later models in the US; not sure about Canada. If you have an SV or SL, you can set the start/stop times to end charging prematurely. For example, if the display is telling you that it will take 5 hours to charge, you might want to try setting the timer for a 4 hour window instead. Note that the charge time estimate is rather pessimistic (in stark contrast to the optimistic figure given by the Guess-O-Meter distance to empty gauge) so you may have to play around with these figures; with my 2012, I noticed that if the car is at 80%, CarWings reports that it will take 90 more minutes to charge to 100% at 240 volts/16 amps.

If you have a Leaf S, it's much trickier as this model has an end-only timer, and the car begins charging based on its own guesstimate of how long it will take to charge. So if you set an end timer of 7 AM but the car thinks it will need 4 hours to charge, it will automatically start charging at 3 AM. The only way around this is to use timers on the EVSE itself, and a few models do have at least Start timers if not end timers as well.
 
SDLEAFER said:
Hi,

Well I just purchased a 2014 Leaf, love it so far but only had it a few days...

I have been looking everywhere for how to set it to the long life batter mode where it will only charge the batteries to 80%...

It appears this feature is on the 2013's and the 2015's but it doesn't show up on my 2014 menu...

Do I need a software update ??

Any help you can offer on exactly how I would set my 2014 Leaf to only charge to 80% would be greatly appreciated ...

Thanks

San Diego or South Dakota?

The data from the battery degradation showed us that charging to 80% instead of 100% didn't help as heat beat it out as such a large factor it hid any change the charging percentage had.

If you live in a hot area spend effort avoiding letting it sit at 100% but don't avoid charging to 100% if you plan to drive it as soon as it is full.

If you live in a cool area don't even worry about it that much.
 
dhanson865 said:
If you live in a hot area spend effort avoiding letting it sit at 100% but don't avoid charging to 100% if you plan to drive it as soon as it is full.
What is classified as hot?
To me 80 degrees is hot because I'm from England. We live in Utah where the summers can get over the 100's during the days from July-August.

My wife has the Leaf, we just plug in our 2015 S each time we return home for the evening. I was going to suggest that I plug it in at 5am each morning before I leave for work so that it will be fully charged for her runs taking the kids to school and house wifey things.

I saw something about the charger timer (which I have switched off) because I don't want my wife to have to deal with remembering to switch it off if she has to come home and charge it during the day for some reason.
 
DuncanCunningham said:
dhanson865 said:
If you live in a hot area spend effort avoiding letting it sit at 100% but don't avoid charging to 100% if you plan to drive it as soon as it is full.
What is classified as hot?
To me 80 degrees is hot because I'm from England. We live in Utah where the summers can get over the 100's during the days from July-August.

Check out http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery_Capacity_Loss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; specifically the parts about the "Battery Aging Model". You might say Hot are cities that have an aging factor higher than 1.0

You could also check out the real world capacity loss table* and see if a car lost bars in your state and use that as a proxy for how hot your environment is.

* http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery_Capacity_Loss#Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Losses" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Battery Aging Model assumptions:

Both calendar capacity loss and cycling capacity loss are temperature dependent
Calendar capacity loss is proportional to the square root of time (e.g., 2 years would give 1.41 times the degradation seen at one year, meaning the second year would have 41% of the calendar loss of the first year)
Solar loading loss (i.e., parking the car in the sun) was estimated based on a study of the Prius battery (Media:HEV Battery Life.pdf) and scaled using average annual solar radiation from the NREL:

Average Annual Solar Radiation.png


The original version of the battery aging model was tuned empirically to reproduce as closely as possible TickTock's graph of Nissan data. In order to fit the graph, it was discovered that the following additional assumptions were necessary:

Calendar loss for the first year was 6.5% for the city with "normal" temperature
Cycling loss for the "normal" city was 1.5% for every 10,000 miles driven at 4 miles per kwh
Driving more efficiently than 4 miles per kwh would cause less cycling of the battery pack and reduce cycling loss proportional to the increase in efficiency. Conversely, less efficient driving would increase cycling loss
The Phoenix Arrhenius aging factor slightly overestimates the hot climate aging; it was necessary to scale the aging factors to fit Nissan's data. Note: The adjustment required the high aging factors like Phoenix to be scaled back (roughly 1.8 -> 1.5 for Phoenix on the scale we were using), although the model has the values adjusted to a slightly different baseline of 0.9 for "normal", so the actual scaled value for Phoenix is 1.35


The model was (October, 2013) updated and calibrated using Ah capacity measurements from Leaf Spy or the LeafDD. Using data reported from 22 Leafs (2011-2012 model years only), several changes were made to calibrate the model to fit the actual data:

It was discovered that scaling the aging factors for cities with climates warmer than Los Angeles caused the prediction to underestimate the actual loss. Therefore, unscaled aging factors were used for these warmer climates
Calendar loss was changed to 6.9% for the first year for the city with "normal" temperature (empirically derived to best fit the actual capacity loss data)
Cycling loss for the "normal" city was changed to 2.0% for every 10,000 miles driven at 4 miles per kwh (empirically derived to best fit the actual capacity loss data)
A correction factor was added to account for the fact that as the battery capacity diminished more full cycles would be necessary to drive a given distance (all other parameters being equal)
 
SDLEAFER said:
Hi,

Well I just purchased a 2014 Leaf, love it so far but only had it a few days...

I have been looking everywhere for how to set it to the long life batter mode where it will only charge the batteries to 80%...

I wouldn't worry much about charging to 100% for battery life, but if you live where I do, where you start off most of your trips with ~2,000 ft. total descent in the first ~7 miles, no "80%" option would be a real disadvantage, and Nissan probably lost a 2015 LEAF sale to me, by dropping this feature.
 
Thanks Dhanson865 and all the others... that is a lot of info to consider...

We are in San Diego so moderate temps.... we try not to charge the car in the sun...

Everything I have read says if you want your batteries to last a long time then use the 80/20 rule... don't charge past 80% nor discharge past 20%... and charge 100% once a month...

I will check out that research but since these cars have only been on the road since 2011 I guess nobody really knows yet...

We have purchased this car outright and I plan to keep it for a long time... so I want to use best practices on the batteries...

We do have a lot of hills here are almost always use the AC... heat not so much... so we do use the Kwhs...

So far looks like I am only getting about 3.8 miles per Kwh... I guess that's not too good...

We love the car so far but have only had it less than an week so I am sure I will be back with more questions...

Thanks again for all your input, really appreciate !!

Cheers
 
Is the heat impact simply from being in the heat or does the car have to be doing something? My parking spot in Dallas is shaded, but not temp controlled. My plan was to avoid driving if temps exceed 85, not charge in same conditions and keep SOC below 80% when sitting in same conditions. I have ready access to transit so I do have flexibility.

I have noticed the battery temp meter does not vary much. We had one hot day in high 80's, air temp in shade, and the battery temp meter barely budged. Same indication on temp drops into low 50's. I get impression you must have to really bake your car to get anywhere near the upper end. I suppose it could happen in Dallas if you leave your car in open lot in direct sunlight for a full work day in one of our 103 degrees summer days.

The calculation above with the square root of the time line - does that mean the biggest loss is in the first year with remaining years at ever decreasing rates?
 
SDLEAFER said:
Thanks Dhanson865 and all the others... that is a lot of info to consider...

We are in San Diego so moderate temps.... we try not to charge the car in the sun...

Everything I have read says if you want your batteries to last a long time then use the 80/20 rule... don't charge past 80% nor discharge past 20%... and charge 100% once a month...

Nissan hides the top few percent and bottom few percent from you. If you drive it until the dash has no bars and the gague is flashing --- for the miles remaining you still aren't at 0%. If you charge it to "100%" you still aren't at 100%.

How much do they hide and at what ends? Well we know the battery is about 24 kWh and they only let you use 21.x kWh brand new. We also know the car goes into turtle mode around 1.4% by the cars scale.

So I imagine something like 4 or 5% hidden on the bottom end and 2 or 3% hidden on the top end.

Also while it is best not to leave it charged to "100%" for prolonged periods the computers/gauges will be less accurate over time if you don't "top balance" which requires charging to "100%" occasionally. Some recommend you do that on L1 or on a lower power L2 to give it more time to balance the pack.
 
mjblazin said:
Is the heat impact simply from being in the heat or does the car have to be doing something? My parking spot in Dallas is shaded, but not temp controlled. My plan was to avoid driving if temps exceed 85, not charge in same conditions and keep SOC below 80% when sitting in same conditions. I have ready access to transit so I do have flexibility.

I have noticed the battery temp meter does not vary much. We had one hot day in high 80's, air temp in shade, and the battery temp meter barely budged. Same indication on temp drops into low 50's. I get impression you must have to really bake your car to get anywhere near the upper end. I suppose it could happen in Dallas if you leave your car in open lot in direct sunlight for a full work day in one of our 103 degrees summer days.

The calculation above with the square root of the time line - does that mean the biggest loss is in the first year with remaining years at ever decreasing rates?

Just being in the heat affects the battery.

Anything that uses the battery heats it on top of whatever is going on outside the car. Driving, charging, heat, AC, anything that takes power out of or puts power into the battery creates waste heat.

The battery weighs a lot and doesn't have free airflow so it will heat slowly and cool slowly. Temp bars are broad. See http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery#Battery_Temperature_Gauge" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

as to the first year vs remaining years, if heat weren't an issue that might be true, turns out as the capacity degrades you use more charge cycles to do the same work making the heat issue and cycle life a feedback loop.
 
I have been religiously following the long life battery regime in my 2013 Leaf (80%-30%, about 50% average overall). Timer is set to start charging at 5am, when it is typically 40-60 degrees out.

Just lost my first bar after 14 months and 14,000 miles. I'm in a hot climate, Fresno CA.

So I do not think I have gained much by the 80% routine. When I went in for the 12 month battery check 2 months ago, I had all the bars and Nissan told me my battery condition was "over 99%" capacity.

John/Fresno
 
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