Can the cold really double the fast charge time ?

I noticed that with a battery temp of 8 degrees C it took 50 mins to get from 38-85 % is this normal ?

The temperature outside was about 1 deg C.

The leaf spy app told me the charge started at about 30 Kw and by 50% was at about 18-20 Kw and then gradually reduced that at about 80% was charging around 6-7 Kw.

ABSOLUTELY. Just a few days ago, I started a (Fuji 25 kw) CHAdeMO charging session with a starting SOC just under 20% SOC with outside ambient temperature about 5F, Battery was about 12-13F. The station shut off automatically after 1 hour and the charge session brought the charge to 55%. When I got back to the car, I actually decided to start another charge session to get a bit more range... That session took at least another 30 minutes, if not a whole new hour, and it only added a little more than 10%. In almost 2 hours, I got a combined 46% charge with the slower Fuji 25 kW CHAdeMO.

Wow, that's a cold battery !

It's a real shame Nissan decided not to heat the battery but I suppose they can't cool it again if someone then decides to fast charge twice in a row.

If the Leaf, especially in winter can't even charge at 30 Kw then 20 Kw DC chargers would be much more useful and cheaper.

I'm actually loving that the battery temps are so cold, as I know that it naturally arrests some instances of capacity loss (more related to heat degradation, or calendar loss?). You just have to deal with the effect it also has on cold battery capacity... Fits less juice, slower quick charge time, and efficiency loss due to cold on the battery chemistry and such.

I've been finding that battery temperature and ambient temperatures around the QC EVSE both affect charging duration.

See charge curves and thermal management (cooling) kWh draw by the iMiev, showing much slower initial charge rate at both low and higher temps, starting on page 14 here:

...SAE INTERNATIONAL
BEVs
•
50 kW Fast Charger limited to 500V, 120 A DC Output
•
Vehicle batteries depleted, then soaked at test temp 20+ hours
•
Two models with DCFC capability tested
•
2012 Mitsubishi iMiev, 16 kWh battery pack, rated, conditioned air cooled
•
2013 Nissan Leaf, 24 kWh battery pack, passive cooling
•
Three test conditions
•
0ºC
•
25ºC
•
50ºC,
•
For a charge event
•
DCFC re-started after end of first charge segment
•
Measure power, energy into battery
•
Battery temperature
•
Ancillary loads...

Summary...

BEV Fast Charging
•
Time to fill battery will vary with temperature – can be considerable
•
Limitations on pack current acceptance
•
Power split between charging, conditioning system draw
DC

Click to expand...

http://avt.inl.gov/pdf/prog_info/HybridSymposium2015Shirk.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Unfortunately, I have not seen the LEAF test results yet.

There is one advantage with quick charging in the winter. The battery pack heats up!
Yesterday i started a quick charge with my Nissan LEAF MY -14 @ 15% SOC. Battery temp was 10c. I stopped the charge 18min later (charged 10,4kWh) the battery temp was then 18c

34,7kW in average charge effect.

Charger started at 42,8kW, hold that for 2 min and then started declining.

taztaz said:

@ 15% SOC. Battery temp was 10c. I stopped the charge 18min later (charged 10,4kWh) the battery temp was then 18c

Click to expand...

10-18c is actually fairly warm in my opinion. I seem to see real serious effects on the battery due to the cold only at temperatures ~0c and below. And of course, this all relates very closely with charge time on the CHAdeMO when batt and air temp are at the freezing point.

Mottyski82 said:

taztaz said:

@ 15% SOC. Battery temp was 10c. I stopped the charge 18min later (charged 10,4kWh) the battery temp was then 18c

Click to expand...

10-18c is actually fairly warm in my opinion. I seem to see real serious effects on the battery due to the cold only at temperatures ~0c and below. And of course, this all relates very closely with charge time on the CHAdeMO when batt and air temp are at the freezing point.

Click to expand...

Yes, its warm. We have spring here My point was that charging with chademo heats the battery and thats good for you in the winter. But as you say, the charging time is longer when the battery is cold.. But charging at chademo during the winter could extend your range cause the increase in battery temp

I agree 100%. A warmer battery during the winter will yield better efficiency when driving.

Hey, by the way... Can I move to Sweden yet? I'm tired of the non-progressive politics here in the states. Sweden and Norway rock when it comes to forward thinking! --- I'm NOT joking, seriously... Can I hop the pond please?

Mottyski82 said:

I agree 100%. A warmer battery during the winter will yield better efficiency when driving.

Hey, by the way... Can I move to Sweden yet? I'm tired of the non-progressive politics here in the states. Sweden and Norway rock when it comes to forward thinking! --- I'm NOT joking, seriously... Can I hop the pond please?

Click to expand...

Haha, you are always welcome here!

In respect to electric car policy and incentives i would move to Norway though, they have way better incentives at the moment but Sweden is getting there i guess.
When it come to IT infrastructure i would say Sweden is in the cutting edge in Europe. Phone and mobility usage are several years ahead of other countries down south. I'm using a mobile phone network (4G) internet connection at the moment (live in a rural area) with 30-40Mbit speed costing 22$/month. Waiting for my fibre LAN connection of 1GBit to come any day now...

I have a great deal for my Nissan LEAF. I pay 190$/month to lease the car for a year and then return it Winter tires and service included. Insurance i have to pay myself.
460-570$ would be the normal leasing price for a LEAF here...

That was a lot of offtopic rant.. Sorry!