What's the fastest a leaf can charge level 3?

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

johnrhansen

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 12, 2013
Messages
1,100
Location
Seattle, WA
Just wondering what's the maximum power the Leaf will accept with DC fast charging? From what I've read the charging rate is communicated from the car's computer to the charging stations computer.. What is the fastest the Leaf will allow itself to charge, and do they make and install stations that can charge at that rate?
 
I believe the LEAF will accept a maximum charge rate of 48 kW, but it will start to taper down as the charge session progresses to minimize battery heating. So it is in that range of power output for just a few minutes...On the Nissan brand DC Fast charge stations, the voltage and current are displayed. So you can multiply it out and see what the actual power level is to the car...At the end of your 20-30 minute session, the charge rate may approach as little as 6-8 kW...

The tapering effect is why it doesn't really impact the charge time significantly if the DC Fast charge unit starts from a lower maximum, such as 30 or 35 kW.
 
I noticed that eaton makes a 50 KW unit, and AV makes up to a 60. The ones at the nissan dealerships that I have seen were 50 KW. On the nissan one I did notice to current and voltage display, and did multiply it out and saw something like 48 KW while charging in the mid range near 50 percent, which makes sense since it's a 50 KW charger. I'm just wondering if they will take any more if the charger was a higher capacity. Or is that only good for Teslas? I heard there is an adapter so they can charge at CHADEMO chargers.
 
"... The conductor geometry of CHAdeMO connector is designed to allow for 200A, which means it can almost double its power level to adapt to the market environment as necessary ..."

http://www.chademo.com/wp/technology/optimal/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's the version I hope gary gid works on next ... charge in 5 to 8 minutes ... never mind the smoke it lets out
:D
.
 
Is it even possible for DCQC units be equiped with some kind of storage so it can charge up at a lower amperage when not in use, so when it is connected to an EV it could dump, maybe 10kwhr of electricity, very quickly, then continue the charge using the max the unit will draw from line current?

Just a thought...
 
Graffi said:
Is it even possible for DCQC units be equiped with some kind of storage so it can charge up at a lower amperage when not in use, so when it is connected to an EV it could dump, maybe 10kwhr of electricity, very quickly, then continue the charge using the max the unit will draw from line current?

Just a thought...

I don't think the line current limits at all how much current the charger can push. I think it's because the battery and car manufacturer determined that you can only push so much current into the car to preserve the health of the battery.
 
Graffi said:
Is it even possible for DCQC units be equiped with some kind of storage so it can charge up at a lower amperage when not in use, so when it is connected to an EV it could dump, maybe 10kwhr of electricity, very quickly, then continue the charge using the max the unit will draw from line current?

Just a thought...
Yes, we have such a DCQC here in Portland. It charges a battery storage system when cars aren't charging (with single-phase electrical service) and will fully charge three Nissan Leafs before it has to completely recharge again.
 
Graffi said:
Is it even possible for DCQC units be equiped with some kind of storage so it can charge up at a lower amperage when not in use, so when it is connected to an EV it could dump, maybe 10kwhr of electricity, very quickly, then continue the charge using the max the unit will draw from line current?

Just a thought...

JFE makes such a unit, with a maximum grid demand of about 20kW while charging cars at full power. It contains about 24 kWh of battery capacity...
 
johnrhansen said:
Just wondering what's the maximum power the Leaf will accept with DC fast charging? From what I've read the charging rate is communicated from the car's computer to the charging stations computer.. What is the fastest the Leaf will allow itself to charge, and do they make and install stations that can charge at that rate?

I'd answer that as yes they make stations that charge at the maximum rate and the maximum rate the Leaf allows is too much (assuming you own your Leaf and care about battery replacement costs).

If I was using an L3 and I had the option I'd limit the charger to 36KW if it was cool out and even lower (as low as 24KW) if it was hot outside.

I say this after reading every page of the 675 page battery thread here and comparing to Tesla charge rate limitations

Supercharger charge rates in terms of C vary

90KW / 85 KW (90 KW supercharger on model S with 85 KW battery) is only 1.05C
120KW / 85 KW (120 KW supercharger on model S with 85 KW battery) is 1.41C
90KW / 60 KW (90 KW on model S with 60 KW battery) is 1.5C
105KW / 60 KW (120 KW supercharger limited to 105KW on model S with 60 KW battery) is 1.75C

But it only charges that fast until the taper kicks in and then only if you are the only car on the charger. Making sure to get the 2nd cable on a charger could ensure a slower rate of charge but wouldn't be an option if a second Tesla isn't present when you are charging.

I have to think since they don't allow the 60KW battery to charge at 120KW that the charge rate above 1.75C is unacceptable to Tesla. 1.5 seems to be OK in their eyes.

The thing to remember is that some of the Model S cars will have fans running extremely loudly during supercharging. Active cooling you could hear from across the parking lot. The Leaf has no such active cooling so fast charging needs to be limited more so than on a Tesla just to keep heat from building up.

If it's cold out you can get away with it, if it is hot out you won't. So my thought is keep the Leaf charging rate below 1.5C when it is cold out and below 1C when it is hot out.
 
The Eaton 50 kW DCQC would start at 50 kW, 120 amps, if the LEAF status of charge was low enough (while it was working. Broken now with defective $3,000 control board and Murphy Express will not repair.)
New Nissan unit at Mountain View Nissan is a 44 kW unit. Only goes to slightly more than 100 amps.
 
I'm not sure what the rate is, but the fastest I have ever seen was on the av charger. I dont have fancy instrumentation and nothing was displayed, but I counted and saw it going up one percent charge every 17 seconds.
 
Wikipedia lists the limit as 62.5 kW. The connector developed by TEPCO is rated 500V, 125 amps, which is 62.5 kW.
But LEAF nominal voltage is 393V.
So at 125 amps, the maximum is 49 kW into the vehicle.
Only a few units like the AV 60 kW will do this.
The 50 kW units come close at 47 kW, 120 amps.
The 50 kW is based on power to the unit.
There is some small loss in the unit, so 50 kW to the unit provides 47 kW to the LEAF.
 
mwalsh said:
The fastetst I've seen a unit charge in the wild is 106A @ 392V, so 41.5kW. But it'll only stay at a high amperage like that until the car is about 50% charged.

I have seen 115 amps @ 396 volts but the wind down starts more like 35% but this is not using the charger's meter which is optimistic in most cases
 
johnrhansen said:
I'm not sure what the rate is, but the fastest I have ever seen was on the av charger. I dont have fancy instrumentation and nothing was displayed, but I counted and saw it going up one percent charge every 17 seconds.

ya, I would not rely on AV's meter being that accurate. for one thing, its percentage is far from matching your cars. Also, I have timed AV chargers and they provided me results that were in a word; impossible. twice I managed to get my first Kwh at 50+ Kwh which when using a 48 KW charger is impossible. so no matter what, its 48 kwh max.

realistically, its probably around the 45 Kwh mark which will vary based on temperature and SOC
 
joerivct said:
What is the 1C rate for the Leaf? From what I have read, "safe" charging is at 0.7C.

1.5C is 36KW
1C is 24KW
0.7C is 17KW

that's why I posted

dhanson865 said:
I'd answer that as yes they make stations that charge at the maximum rate and the maximum rate the Leaf allows is too much (assuming you own your Leaf and care about battery replacement costs).

If I was using an L3 and I had the option I'd limit the charger to 36KW if it was cool out and even lower (as low as 24KW) if it was hot outside.

I say this after reading every page of the 675 page battery thread here and comparing to Tesla charge rate limitations

Supercharger charge rates in terms of C vary

90KW / 85 KW (90 KW supercharger on model S with 85 KW battery) is only 1.05C
120KW / 85 KW (120 KW supercharger on model S with 85 KW battery) is 1.41C
90KW / 60 KW (90 KW on model S with 60 KW battery) is 1.5C
105KW / 60 KW (120 KW supercharger limited to 105KW on model S with 60 KW battery) is 1.75C

But it only charges that fast until the taper kicks in and then only if you are the only car on the charger. Making sure to get the 2nd cable on a charger could ensure a slower rate of charge but wouldn't be an option if a second Tesla isn't present when you are charging.

I have to think since they don't allow the 60KW battery to charge at 120KW that the charge rate above 1.75C is unacceptable to Tesla. 1.5 seems to be OK in their eyes.

The thing to remember is that some of the Model S cars will have fans running extremely loudly during supercharging. Active cooling you could hear from across the parking lot. The Leaf has no such active cooling so fast charging needs to be limited more so than on a Tesla just to keep heat from building up.

If it's cold out you can get away with it, if it is hot out you won't. So my thought is keep the Leaf charging rate below 1.5C when it is cold out and below 1C when it is hot out.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
first Kwh at 50+ Kwh which when using a 48 KW charger is impossible.

Chargers are limited by maximum amps and can vary in KW based on the volts supplied by the electric company. If the input goes up in voltage a unit can supply more than it's nameplate in KW.
 
dhanson865 said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
first Kwh at 50+ Kwh which when using a 48 KW charger is impossible.

Chargers are limited by maximum amps and can vary in KW based on the volts supplied by the electric company. If the input goes up in voltage a unit can supply more than it's nameplate in KW.

The limit is not the "input voltage supplied by the electric company". Not even close.

There are CHAdeMO chargers using 208 volts and 480 volts AC, but the DC output is always 380 - 395 volts on a LEAF.

That's why the max power is limited to 125 amps (the current max) and 395 volts in a LEAF. In practice, it is further limited to 120 amps.
 
dhanson865 said:
The thing to remember is that some of the Model S cars will have fans running extremely loudly during supercharging. Active cooling you could hear from across the parking lot. The Leaf has no such active cooling so fast charging needs to be limited more so than on a Tesla just to keep heat from building up.

Tesla batteries have much more internal resistance. That's why a Leaf will charge at 2C and the most you'll really ever see from a Tesla is 1.5C, and that's with the cooling system blazing.
 
Back
Top