Prolonging battery life, temperature, state-of-charge

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

tbleakne

Well-known member
Leaf Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2010
Messages
988
Location
Claremont, CA
I have found quite a bit of comment about how temperature and state-of-charge (SOC) can affect Lithium-ion battery life. This, together with official Nissan comments that they are avoiding markets like Phoenix for now, suggests to me that prospective Leaf owners need to be aware of these issues when planning how they will drive, park, and charge their vehicles.

For example, parking your car at work all day in an unshaded parking lot might not be advisable in the summer in southern California, because temperatures above 40 degrees C (104 F) can seriously degrade Li-ion battery life. My home garage also gets quite hot during summer afternoons (> 90 F), so I am looking into improving its ventilation.

Apparently the temperature effect can be mitigated by controlling the SOC. A battery at full charge is most vulnerable to hot temperatures, while a battery at 40-60% SOC is least vulnerable. In other words, if you are planning to park in the Sun for part of the day, make sure your charge at that point is no more than 60-70%.

Similarly, if you are going to leave the car parked for more than a day or two, leave its charge at 40-50% until the night before you resume driving.

These references also state that repeated discharges below 20% SOC degrade battery life. This suggests that the best strategy would be to charge your car each night to a level that will leave about 20% when you arrive home the following night after that day's driving.

While Li batteries have no memory effect, their lifetime is affected by the number of charge/discharge cycles. Most sources say a lifetime of 1000 cycles is pretty good, but Nissan may think it can get more from their design. Charging (4 times/week * 50 weeks = 200 cycles/year) * 5 years = 1000 cycles. Perhaps it is best to skip charging some nights of the week if you can. While Nissan has recently announced an 8-yr warranty in response to the Chevy Volt warranty, circumstances suggest that this decision was based more on marketing than engineering judgement.

All this suggests that an occasional trip at up to 90 miles without a charge along the way is OK, but doing this every workday could reduce your batter life by a year or two.

Nissan is using a newer version of Lithium-ion, LiMn2O4, than the older Lithium-cobalt. Lithium-Manganese batteries are safer, and do tolerate higher-temperature operation as shown in this reference table:
http://powerelectronics.com/portable_power_management/battery_charger_ics/804li-ion-battery-life-Table01.jpg

As discussed in another thread, Musk, the Tesla CEO, has criticized the Leaf battery pack for having a "primitive" cooling strategy. Presumably Nissan feels their better battery chemistry makes this simplification feasible. Does anyone have better information as to how much temperature tolerance the LiMn gives ?

If this has already been discussed in another thread, please redirect me.

From Wikipedia (Lithium-ion battery):
A unit that is full most of the time at 25 °C (77 °F) irreversibly loses approximately 20% capacity per year. Poor ventilation may increase temperatures, further shortening battery life. Loss rates vary by temperature: 6% loss at 0 °C (32 °F), 20% at 25 °C (77 °F), and 35% at 40 °C (104 °F). When stored at 40%–60% charge level, the capacity loss is reduced to 2%, 4%, and 15%, respectively.[35][citation needed]

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm
 
Phoenix is an initial rollout area, even though it is hot there.

Different Lixxx chemistries are quite different batteries.
Info about one type should not be applied to another type.
 
Also, the Leaf battery is never charged to 100% or drained to 0%. The usable range, which is apparently nearly 24kWh, is not the total capacity of the battery. Nissan hasn't announced that, but common guesses are that the battery is never allowed to go below 10% or over 90% charge.

In other words, the on-board computer is already doing much of the battery life maximization that you are suggesting be done manually.
 
planet4ever said:
Also, the Leaf battery is never charged to 100% or drained to 0%. The usable range, which is apparently nearly 24kWh, is not the total capacity of the battery. Nissan hasn't announced that, but common guesses are that the battery is never allowed to go below 10% or over 90% charge.

In other words, the on-board computer is already doing much of the battery life maximization that you are suggesting be done manually.

Nissan employees have confirmed that we use the 'middle' 80% charge between 10 and 90%. A gent very familiar with lithium that saw the car in DC during the tour confirmed that full pack capacity is 32kWh.
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11892&start=15#p238131

edit...thanks evnow
 
AndyH said:
Nissan employees have confirmed that we use the 'middle' 80% charge between 10 and 90%. A gent very familiar with lithium that saw the car in DC during the tour confirmed that the cells are 32Ah.
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11892&start=15#p238131

Did you mean 32kwh ?

Fun facts: price TBD, theoretically shipping by the end of the calendar year (yeah, we've heard that line before), 80 kW motor, 32 kWh Li-Mn battery iirc designed to be used between 90% and 10% depth of discharge, and both fast chargers for 240V-equipped garages and a really high voltage DC charger for institutions.

BTW, interesting that few were giving credence to December shipment.
 
evnow said:
AndyH said:
Nissan employees have confirmed that we use the 'middle' 80% charge between 10 and 90%. A gent very familiar with lithium that saw the car in DC during the tour confirmed that the cells are 32Ah.
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11892&start=15#p238131

Did you mean 32kwh ?
Yes - the E-S poster reported 32kWh. I wan't done with the post and my browser hung up.

The AESC info used to say that the cells were 33Ah (and had four in series in a can). The current info says a module is 66Ah at 7.5V - that's two cells in parallel and two in series.

evnow said:
Fun facts: price TBD, theoretically shipping by the end of the calendar year (yeah, we've heard that line before), 80 kW motor, 32 kWh Li-Mn battery iirc designed to be used between 90% and 10% depth of discharge, and both fast chargers for 240V-equipped garages and a really high voltage DC charger for institutions.

BTW, interesting that few were giving credence to December shipment.
At least give Toshi credit for the fun fact. ;) His comment wasn't about the Leaf specifically, but about EV promises in general. There have been more promises than deliveries across the EV spectrum as I'm sure you'll agree.
 
planet4ever said:
Also, the Leaf battery is never charged to 100% or drained to 0%. The usable range, which is apparently nearly 24kWh, is not the total capacity of the battery. Nissan hasn't announced that, but common guesses are that the battery is never allowed to go below 10% or over 90% charge.

In other words, the on-board computer is already doing much of the battery life maximization that you are suggesting be done manually.

Nissan employees have confirmed that we use the 'middle' 80% charge between 10 and 90%. A gent very familiar with lithium that saw the car in DC during the tour confirmed that full pack capacity is 32kWh.
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11892&start=15#p238131

edit...thanks evnow[/quote]

So that means the 'useable' capacity is almost 26kwh which at a conservative 4kwh/mi., I'm willing to be that I'll be able to go 65mph on the freeway and make it easily 90 miles or more. That's the first thing I'm going to do when I drive it home from CA. :) Hopefully, they'll have the fast charging stations on I-10 by then. :)
 
Thanks for all your comments. I am glad to hear that there is a "secret" reserve to the battery capacity, so that you can more or less safely push your mileage close to the advertised 100 miles. Of course you have to deduct some if you are using the A/C or driving fast, but what you are telling me is that the car is doing some of those calculations for you, which is pretty cool. This is consistent with the description of the the nice displays that Chelsea Sexton shows on her July 22 blog:

http://green.autoblog.com/2010/07/22/chelsea-sexton-nissan-leaf-uses-information-as-gateway-drug/

I also agree that information about one Li-ion chemistry does not necessarily apply to another. The various Nissan comments do seem to say that it is possible to abuse the battery and end up with a shorter battery lifetime. I was just applying general Li-ion battery advice to how one might be able to extend the lifetime of their battery by being extra-conservative. The car's computer does not know how much you are going to drive the next day, so it can't adjust the charge for that. We really don't know whether Nissan's LiMn battery operated mostly from 80% to 20% state-of-charge will last significantly longer in a warm climate than one that is always charged every night to 90 %, but it might, and being conservative should not hurt. I doubt whether Nissan really knows.
 
Assuming the car will charge to 90%, and allow the car to run down to 10%, our "usable" portion is the 80% between 90% and 10%.

It is very unlikely that the last 10% is a "hidden" reserve. Rather, it is most likely a forbidden "do not enter" zone, enforced by stopping the car, to protect the battery cells from damage.

When you gain some experience with your car and charging it, you will probably have a better understanding of how long it takes to "fill" the e-tank. Then, you might be able to charge to less than useable e-tank "full" level (less than the 90% point) by setting the car's charge timer to terminate the charging early.

However, there is probably very little benefit in doing this "partial fill". In fact, it is more likely that the battery cells are only "equalized" (balanced) during the final stages of filling the battery pack, and this "balancing" should be done regularly, to help check the battery "health". Most likely, you will not even be aware of it, because the car's charger will probably do it automatically.

Balancing is, however, an important step in keeping the battery healthy, and in detecting potential problems with individual cells.
 
What concern and potentially precaution applies to heat from typical body shop paint ovens which generally bake paint between 150 - 160 degrees? Can LEAFs handle this?
 
leafnode said:
What concern and potentially precaution applies to heat from typical body shop paint ovens which generally bake paint between 150 - 160 degrees? Can LEAFs handle this?

I would personally make sure the battery was removed by the dealer prior to any body work.
 
leafnode said:
What concern and potentially precaution applies to heat from typical body shop paint ovens which generally bake paint between 150 - 160 degrees? Can LEAFs handle this?

Degradation of the battery pack will happen (according to Nissan) with temps of 120 or higher for 24 hours, so I would imagine these higher temps wouldn't be good for it.
 
highcountryrider said:
I have seen a number of comments about equalizing. Sounds like a good thing to charge
to 100% from time-to-time. Opinions on how often?
I think Tony Williams suggested once a month. Now that my "guesstimate" at the beginning of the day has dropped a bit, I am going to try a 100% charge. Haven't charged to 100% for about 10 weeks.
 
I would GUESS that equilizing around 20 times might be necessary to better/well equalize the pack.

After initial equalization, once a week might be sufficient, but that would vary greatly with how well matched the cell-pairs are in your particular Battery.

Until we can read the cell-pair voltages (or highest and lowest voltage), we will probably not know how well the battery cells are equalized.
 
garygid said:
I would GUESS that equalizing around 20 times might be necessary to better/well equalize the pack.
Why do you think it would take so many times to equalize the pack? Is there some reason it can't be done well in one cycle?
 
I sent an email to Nissan customer service about cell balancing, and got the "we don't know answer". I sent back and asked for a contact to a technician / engineer who can answer the questions about cell balancing.
 
I have only charged to 100% once. I'll be leaving town Friday morning, so I
won't do 100%, in fact won't charge at all tomorrow night, but I can do that
when I get back.
 
Setting the charge timer with no start time and just a finish time allows you to wait to the last minute (so to speak) to charge.. That way most of the night the battery is at a lower SOC. If you do want to charge to 100% several times a month and let it sit "full" for a few hours to balance (if needed) there's no real harm there... Just don't let it sit full for many hours. Full for the cell is about 4.2v, but the Leaf never goes higher than 4.1v. 80% is 4.05v so I don't know that 80% is vastly safer than 100% for a voltage to sit at for hours.. It's hard to quantify. I have mine set to reach 80% every morning by 6am. If I need more I'll hit the charge now button soon after 6 and top it off.
 
Back
Top