range extender

I've been thinking a lot about the design of the Chevy Volt. And I'm just curious if anyone has given any thought to something similar on a smaller scale.

Lets say, for example, that a vehicle like the Leaf could have some kind of small microturbine engine. Something small, quiet, and cheap. Okay, so it won't produce enough power to actually drive the car. But it could carry enough fuel to double the range. Just one gallon of liquid fuel could probably recharge the battery over a period of time.

So, lets examine how that would work. Lets say you need to drive further than the usual limit of the Leaf's battery. You could tell it to turn the range extender on at the beginning of the trip and it would be charging while you drive. Sure, you are still going to deplete the battery but it might add 15 or 20 miles of range. Then, when you park at your destination, it would keep running and recharging your batteries. After a few hours, you return to your car and you've gained 20 or 30 more miles of range. You could, in theory, add more fuel on the go if need be.

Now, I'm sure this idea sounds silly to a lot of people, because they want an EV, not a hybrid. And the people that want a hybrid want to be able to drive on gasoline for really, really long trips. But, if such an option could be added to the Leaf for, say, $2,000 or less.. that could be an attractive option to people who drive a bit further than the regular range of the car, and I dare say it would get very good fuel economy. Because it would be so small, it could fit into the hatchback area and probably add only a small amount of weight to the car.

if Nissan put some kind of CAN-BUS and high voltage port in the back of the car and some sort of exhaust hose, and the thing integrated in with the on-board electronics, I bet people would buy it. Instead of having 75 miles of driving before finding a charging station somewhere, you could conceivably have 150 miles, albiet maybe not all at once.

Sounds like the Velozzi.

http://jalopnik.com/255528/super-efficiency-200-mpg-velozzi-micro+turbine-electric-hybrid" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Why do all of that when one could just create a battery trailer with enough energy for an additional 100, 200, or 300 miles? It would weigh the same or less as a generator setup.

By the way the Volt is plug in hybrid.

Audi is using the following

The Wankel weighs in at just 154 lbs and displaces just 254 cc of volume in its single rotor. The whole unit is small enough to sit below the cargo floor of the A1. Running at a constant 5,000 rpm, the rotary motor can extend the A1 e-tron's range to 130 miles. Why not longer? The fuel tank holds only 3.17 gallons. With the Wankel running, Audi says the A1 e-tron will return about 124 miles per gallon U.S.

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http://electric-vehicles-cars-bikes.blogspot.com/2010/03/audi-a1-e-tron-series-hybrid-to-use.html

I want the ability to take it in and out.

I want zero tailpipe emissions. Otherwise I'd just buy a Prius.

A battery trailer for long drives would be an excellent idea though.

Why not a battery-in-the-trunk? I'm very confident that such a system will be offered in the not too distant future. How big should it be, and how much is it worth?

TonyWilliams said:

Why not a battery-in-the-trunk? I'm very confident that such a system will be offered in the not too distant future. How big should it be, and how much is it worth?

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All that extra weight in the trunk?

The Leaf isn't approved to tow.

Nice ideas but totally impractical IMHO.

I think the only sensible way to get extended range from our Leaf is an exchange extended range battery. Will Nissan offer this? IMO No. Nor do I think they will be available from 3rd parties. So best option... trade in for a new Leaf when they launch with bigger batteries.

Unfortunately, when traveling significantly over100 miles zero tailpipe emissions isn't an option at this point; so the choices seem to be:
- Extend range using a batteries. Cons: significant dollars for a (relatively) small amount of additional range
- Extent range using gasoline by: Cons: Obvious
- using an conventional ICE vehicle. Cons: owning/storing/maintaining an entire ICE vehicle only for occasional trips
- rigging up some sort of a trailer/generator. Cons: does not (yet) exist; Pros: Only towed when needed, could alleviate need to own ICE vehicle

So based on the above analysis, a small trailer could be a compelling add-on for a Leaf, in particular, for occasional use, at least to my eye.

-Brad

The most practical way to “extend the range” of an EV is not to add an inefficient and highly polluting “security ICE”, or load the vehicle with hundreds of pounds and thousands of dollars worth of extra batteries, that will be necessary for only a small fraction of total vehicle trips.

The cheapest and most efficient way to “extend the range” of your EV is to build the quick charging infrastructure on America’s highways.

edatoakrun said:

The cheapest and most efficient way to “extend the range” of your EV is to build the quick charging infrastructure on America’s highways.

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I would not call it "cheapest." You are trading money for time. If they can get the quick charge down to say 5 minutes then it would be doable. But at 30 minutes a charge you are significantly adding time to any trip over 200 miles.

Most will probably wait for better battery systems. I'm also hopeful that Doc Brown will show up with a bunch of Mr. Fusion units.

SierraQ said:

edatoakrun said:

The cheapest and most efficient way to “extend the range” of your EV is to build the quick charging infrastructure on America’s highways.

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I would not call it "cheapest." You are trading money for time. If they can get the quick charge down to say 5 minutes then it would be doable. But at 30 minutes a charge you are significantly adding time to any trip over 200 miles.

Most will probably wait for better battery systems. I'm also hopeful that Doc Brown will show up with a bunch of Mr. Fusion units.

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For trips longer than a few hundred miles, you would usually be better off flying, and renting a BEV at the airport.

The current (small) window for trips of about 200-400 miles, where an ICE could be advantageous, will continue to shrink as the EV infrastructure is built out, and BEV range and charge time improve incrementally.

But even if Nissan Could double the range of the LEAF 5 years from now, at the same cost and weight, I expect most buyers would opt for SHORTER range BEVs at much lower cost, with higher m/kWh ratings, due to lower vehicle weight.

BEVs will probably never match the range we now take for granted with ICEVs, but his will not prevent BEVs from replacing them.

Trying to match ICEVs on range, only leads to the madness that will shortly be embodied by the two-ton 200 mile range $80,000 cars, which some EV manufacturers are now planning to bring to the market...

The other trouble that I see with a trailer is that you have to find a place to store it and then keep it charged up for that occasional long distance trip.

Now maybe if U-Haul were to rent these things, you could just rent it in one town and return it in another!

Now that's dreaming! :lol:

Dave

I think a rental battery trailer would not only be practical, but one of the
best ideas for extended range.

But even better: :lol:

bradleygibson said:

Unfortunately, when traveling significantly over 100 miles zero tailpipe emissions isn't an option at this point;

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but soon there will be (if you have the money): http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2011...boasts-320-mile-range-one-hour-recharge-time/

SierraQ said:

But at 30 minutes a charge you are significantly adding time to any trip over 200 miles.

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Whats the hurry?

DaveL said:

Now maybe if U-Haul were to rent these things, you could just rent it in one town and return it in another!

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Odd, as my thinking was if one could do EXACTLY that with a charged battery pack trailer, it would work out great--even before I read your post. Might be a great business for stations that currently sell petrol in many corridors. The trailer would be doable from an engineering standpoint with the support of Nissan and other makers if there could be a standard.

Nissan and Mitsubishi dealers could rent the battery trailer, but it will be frightfully expensive, perhaps cheaper just to rent a regular car.. UHAUL could rent a gasonline genset on a trailer that would do double duty in emergencies (thus cheaper), but the cars would need the hardware to hook up and be rated for a small trailer hitch.

The problem with trailers is that a lot of people would have trouble backing up with them, unless they used a fancy steering system.. thus increasing the cost again.

Just carry a small portable 1500w - 2000w 120vac generator. Honda and Coleman make quite small ones, only need a few litres (less than a gallon), I believe, to get a few hours of charging. And by small, I mean smaller than a check-in luggage suitcase. Just leave it in the trunk and if you ever end up batteries-dead on the side of the road, you can pull it out, start it up and plug it in. Now before you start going at me and saying it's too small, too slow, too much emissions, etc. I see it as a much preferred option than calling a tow truck, walking home, pushing the car, etc. You have to figure most times you'll be using the range-finder thingie on the dash and those rare times where you think you'll just make it and you don't, how far would you likely be from your destination? 1 mile? 3 miles? It's not going to be 20 miles. So I'd much rather the option of knowing I'm fully self-sufficient, don't need to be embarrassed getting my electric car towed and can plug in to my electric generator and sit in the car and listen to tunes on the radio for 30 - 60 minutes just enough to get me that last mile or two. Heck, waiting for a tow truck in traffic can take way longer than that.

kinggeorge13 said:

Just carry a small portable 1500w - 2000w 120vac generator. Honda and Coleman make quite small ones, only need a few litres (less than a gallon), I believe, to get a few hours of charging. And by small, I mean smaller than a check-in luggage suitcase. Just leave it in the trunk and if you ever end up batteries-dead on the side of the road, you can pull it out, start it up and plug it in. Now before you start going at me and saying it's too small, too slow, too much emissions, etc. I see it as a much preferred option than calling a tow truck, walking home, pushing the car, etc. You have to figure most times you'll be using the range-finder thingie on the dash and those rare times where you think you'll just make it and you don't, how far would you likely be from your destination? 1 mile? 3 miles? It's not going to be 20 miles. So I'd much rather the option of knowing I'm fully self-sufficient, don't need to be embarrassed getting my electric car towed and can plug in to my electric generator and sit in the car and listen to tunes on the radio for 30 - 60 minutes just enough to get me that last mile or two. Heck, waiting for a tow truck in traffic can take way longer than that.

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Welcome to the forum! As for carrying around a generator all the time, I'd prefer not to give up the cargo space or have to keep gasoline inside the car. Really, the portable Nissan charging cord (included with the car) and a beefy extension cord are all I really need as backups. If I'm about to run out of charge (which hasn't happened since I got the car six months and 6000 miles ago), I won't hesitate to plug in at a friend's house or beg a stranger for an outlet. In so doing, I will apologize for my poor planning, extenuating circumstances, or whatever the reason for my running low.

No one mentioned p.v. a trailer with some solar panels. It would be light, easily streamlined, and would put out juego all day. How about the cargo area with a custom fitted fuel cell ? Modified cars are part of the American mythos! Look at all the mods made on the VW bug.