The Blink Story

This is what I learnt talking to a few folks who should know.

Ecotality submitted the proposal to DOE for EV Project along with Coulomb and used Coulomb's EVSE for demos etc. But DOE, when awarding the contract, didn't include Coulomb. Ecotality saw an opening there to "make" more money - they completely excluded Coulomb & started on an EVSE design themselfs. We all know how well that has turned out to be.

The way Ecotality is trying to install EVSE's in business locations is very different from the way Coulomb operates. I think this is the reason why Coulomb has been more successful in putting up chargers compared to Ecotality, even though Blink chargers are free under the EV Project.

Coulomb sells the EVSEs. The business will own and operate the EVSE, setting prices as they see fit. Coulomb will still operate the networking and gets a transaction fee (much like credit card companies operate).

Ecotality installs the EVSEs in business premises - but owns the EVSE. They will pay the business for electricity - but decide on the pricing structure and any profits they can make. You can now see why businesses would be reluctant to sign on to this kind of deal.

Finally, I looked at the financial statements of ecotality. They are bleeding money and have cash flow problems (http://www.ecotality.com/investors/index.php?qm_page=3697" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false. I think the best hope for us now is if someone acquires Ecotality and executes the EV Project well from now on, now that Ecotality has become a penny stock. Blink has been issueing stock just to stay afloat.

and now we know the rest of the story.. thanks evnow, good job.

evnow said:

I think the best hope for us now is if someone acquires Ecotality and executes the EV Project well from now on, now that Ecotality has become a penny stock. Blink has been issueing stock just to stay afloat.

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Hmm, perhaps like Coulomb?

evnow said:

This is what I learned talking to a few folks who should know.
...
The way Ecotality is trying to install EVSE's in business locations is very different from the way Coulomb operates. I think this is the reason why Coulomb has been more successful in putting up chargers compared to Ecotality, even though Blink chargers are free under the EV Project.
...

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I agree with everything except the part here where you imply that Coulomb EVSE's were not available free. I was offered their networked home version here in northern CA, and would have taken the deal if SPX had not decided to way over-charge for the install. (Ended up with a Nissan branded AE unit from a poster here due to it being half the cost out of pocket, and no 3 year data agreement...)

Volt3939 said:

I agree with everything except the part here where you imply that Coulomb EVSE's were not available free. I was offered their networked home version here in northern CA, and would have taken the deal if SPX had not decided to way over-charge for the install. (Ended up with a Nissan branded AE unit from a poster here due to it being half the cost out of pocket, and no 3 year data agreement...)

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I'm only talking about commercial chargers.

Once again, thanks Evnow for this most useful perspective. What a shame that the DOE has left a big hole in the green highway surrounding Seattle metro for ecotality to fill, at this rate the company will fold before getting all those L3's in place or even worse, get them in place and not be able to keep up with maintaining them, then fold...ugh. mumble to self... must stay positive, must stay positive...

until someone from blink contacts me with some reasonable explanation of how this has come to pass and what they are doing to remedy the situation, I am officially taking them off my list when I recommend chargers to folks. Chargepoint is at the top of my list now.

I dont see public chargers making any money for at least 5 years...I think the first L3 cost $50k for Ecotality but now i see Nissan has a L3 that cost $10k ...

Within the next 6 months ECTY will run out of money again and I expect the stock to hit .50 cents a share..They just sold 10 million shares @ $2.50 each a few months ago ..It kind of makes me laugh that they are in charge of a $100 million dollar grant from the tax payers thats needs to be payed back LOL

it is easy to see why Businesses would be hesitant to give up one of their prime customer parking spaces for a price structure they could not control. obviously, as the landowner, they can force Blink out, but guessing Blink is requiring a contract for leasing.

there was a post on the Seattle FB site implying that Blink will re-evaluate the rates at the end of 2012. this will be based on feedback. they should be allowing customers to input a code into the machines provided by the business (parking validation if you will) to get free charging or at least charge the business for it instead of the customer.

i have to say i got the QC because i felt it be a major mistake to not considering the price ($640 discounted) but i can live without Ecotality. Chargepoint is installing the ones for the State and since i am in the "extended" EV Highway Project Area the QC's in King County are nice but simply not critical for me. i have enough to get there with a boost outside of town coming and going. i would gladly sit 15-20 minutes no problem

now, others who live closer might go to Seattle for an hour or whatever. not me. when i go there, its rarely for less than 2-3 hours. that is enough on L2 for me to survive especially with QC just 20 miles south of town

"Ecotality saw an opening there to "make" more money - they completely excluded Coulomb & started on an EVSE design themselfs."

Not exactly. ECOtality has a subcontract with Roush Manufacturing for the design and manufacturing of the Level 2 EVSEs. I was told Roush Manufacturing already had a prototype EVSE and it was rushed into production for the EV Project.

Here are all the details of the EV Project on recovery.gov.

ECOtality have only billed $17M of the $100M EV Project award. It's just a complete disaster.

ENIAC said:

"Ecotality saw an opening there to "make" more money - they completely excluded Coulomb & started on an EVSE design themselfs."

Not exactly. ECOtality has a subcontract with Roush Manufacturing for the design and manufacturing of the Level 2 EVSEs. I was told Roush Manufacturing already had a prototype EVSE and it was rushed into production for the EV Project.

Here are all the details of the EV Project on recovery.gov.

ECOtality have only billed $17M of the $100M EV Project award. It's just a complete disaster.

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it is a 3 year project that has gone less than a year, so guessing some money has to be available thru-out the project term.

would be nice if we could see the timeline for goals, expenses, etc. we already know that Ecotality has missed a few in WA. L2's i am guessing went up as planned and there are several now here. but L3's are late with no definite or approximate timetable or location announced.

Chargepoint is also late (Nov 2010) but now has locations and tentative launch dates running from feb to April 2011. so ok, a few months late. i can accept that because we at least have updated info. we have locations, etc.

but then again, Chargepoint is a WA State funded operation so its completely separated from the National Program although still conceived in concert with them.

DaveinOlyWA said:

it is a 3 year project that has gone less than a year, so guessing some money has to be available thru-out the project term.

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It was actually awarded 09/30/2009, so we are 27 months into the project. The award amount was $100,196,560 and $17,256,126 has been invoiced so there's $82,940,434 remaining.

DaveinOlyWA said:

it is a 3 year project that has gone less than a year, so guessing some money has to be available thru-out the project term.

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Yes - but 3 years was to study the way people use the infrastructure - not to build the infrastructure itself !

Chargepoint is also late (Nov 2010) but now has locations and tentative launch dates running from feb to April 2011. so ok, a few months late. i can accept that because we at least have updated info. we have locations, etc.

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Not ChargePoint - but AV. The state gave $1M and said figure out how many QCs to build and where. AV won the contract.

mark13 said:

Within the next 6 months ECTY will run out of money again and I expect the stock to hit .50 cents a share..They just sold 10 million shares @ $2.50 each a few months ago ..It kind of makes me laugh that they are in charge of a $100 million dollar grant from the tax payers thats needs to be payed back LOL

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It is a grant i.e. doesn't need to be paid back.

BTW, the "tax payers" is just a cliche. Most of the money comes from China / Printing money.

thank you all for the corrections but i still fail to see the problem. they were granted 100 million, they have spent 17 million and are

1) far from completing their task
2) far from spending the money allotted.

so when is the deadline? 2014? well they still have time

now; i am not advocating them in any way. they have made mistakes, their produce reliability appears to be "work in progress" and we have no idea if they can even make an L3 work at all.

but, i have seen far worse. companies waay over budget and behind on the timetable.

but then again, so has EVERYONE else that is related to the EV launch. Nissan was a bit late, slow in deliveries, information, etc. other vendors have been slow as well. but now we have nearly a dozen charging options from 2 11 months ago. that will continue.

all in all, Eco is probably a bit worse than the others but its all still new. but they will fail or succeed. i will welcome their contribution or i will not miss them when they leave. i dont really care either way.

it will in no way lower my satisfaction of the Leaf. there will be others to jump in to attempt to do what Ecotality could not. waiting sucks. sure it does but i have gotten 11,000 miles without them and will continue and we do have others coming online in 2 months with QC options and they wont be the last.

DaveinOlyWA said:

so when is the deadline? 2014? well they still have time

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The date to "complete" the government funded installations is Dec 31, 2011. The study portion ends April 2013.

Obviously, Ecotality can sell you one of their $50k DC chargers on Jan 1, 2012... About when Nissan starts selling their $10k charger (that doesn't require a whole separate remote transformer).

TonyWilliams said:

The date to "complete" the government funded installations is Dec 31, 2011. The study portion ends April 2013.

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Just a minor correction, but my understanding was that Dec. 31, 2011, is their original date to finalize contracts for gov't-subsidized installations. The actual construction/installation of the units can take place later, and does not have to be "completed" by the end of this year. They are also pursuing an extension of these terms under the DOE contract and there is always a chance that might be granted.

TT

ttweed said:

Dec. 31, 2011, is their original date to finalize contracts for gov't-subsidized installations. The actual construction/installation of the units can take place later, and does not have to be "completed" by the end of this year. They are also pursuing an extension of these terms under the DOE contract and there is always a chance that might be granted.

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I've learned that DOE granted the extension to Mar. 31, 2012 to get contracts in place for charging installations, and in the next 3 months I urge that everyone give ECOtality the help they asked in making contacts with likely charging station hosts.

Now I believe ECOtality has stumbled badly, in many ways detailed in this thread and elsewhere. Particularly I fault them for not realizing quickly that their business model was not working well. Had they switched to Chargepoint's more conventional model, I think they would now have about as many Blink stations as there are Chargepoint stations. But whether you love them, hate them, or tolerate them, the fact remains that the more success they have in the next 3 months, the more charging stations we will have, and the more likely that EV sales will increase in 2012-13.

WA State broke ground on a QCDC on Monday... oh wait!! that one is being built by Aero!

walterbays said:

I've learned that DOE granted the extension to Mar. 31, 2012 to get contracts in place for charging installations, and in the next 3 months I urge that everyone give ECOtality the help they asked in making contacts with likely charging station hosts.

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Thanks for that info, Walter. I thought they might get an extension due to the slow rollout of the Leaf and then the tsunami delaying deliveries. I agree with you that they need all the help they can get. They're WAY behind....

I fully understand why ECTY is dragging their feet ..The way fast chargers are falling in price from $50K for a Blink model down to $10k for a Nissan model..I know the Blink model will have a large advertising screen but I just prefer a $10k model from Nissan..
Maybe this could be a problem with ECTY also,stay away from the fancy models with all the bells and whistles like the garage chargers have and go generic like Nissan is doing...But then again like you said the Chinese are paying for it