How can we get the "no parking" rule to be more effective?

I am a new (less than one month) Leaf driver in the Los Angeles area. I seriously debated with myself whether I should go for Leaf or stay conservative with Volt; but I think I made really a better choice!

Anyway, our family took a one-day trip to the Aquarium of Pacific in Long Beach, which is 50 miles away from my home. This was our first Leaf trip where we "needed to" charge the car away from home. I had read up a lot of info and documents online and elsewhere so I knew what to expect, including the ICE problem.

PlugShare showed bunch of charging spots in Long Beach, including the parking lot of the Aquarium. The stations in the lot were "Available" according to PlugShare. But sure enough, when we got to the parking lot, all spots were either ICEd or used by other EVs that are not plugged in. The spots are marked as "No Parking Except For Electric Vehicle Charing", but this is LA and people aren't necessarily into reading. Luckily, a parking attendant made a "spot" behind a column for us and we got to use a charge station. But we only found this out when we have entered gated, non-free, parking structure. As far as I'm concerned, this uncertainty is the major source of the thing called "range anxiety"; it is not about range, but a feeling of not knowing what to do until very last minutes.

People talk about adding more charging stations. Sure, that is absolutely important, but besides that it'd be great to fix the under-utilization problem of existing stations. One obvious step is to have a way to make the "no parking except..." rule be known and effective. This involves education but also involves (unfortunately) more strict enforcement. When I talked to the parking attendants, they said that the Long Beach police used to come often and gave tickets but not doing it recently. Would I better have called the police by myself? A colleague of mine mentioned about citizen's arrest on reckless driving. Is there something similar that is applicable to parking situation? On some streets close to beaches in Santa Monica and Venice Beach, they enforce the parking violation rule quite strictly. (The reason, of course, must be to protect the citizens, but perhaps some people might say that generating easy revenue is a reason as well.) How do we as a society build the "norm" of this for EV parking spots?

Its a tough problem that time and familiarity will help. In the mean time it pays to show some grace as not all unplugged EV's were left that way by their owners. Remember to check the EV's dashboard for a note or sign with the owner's contact number as many of us want to be contacted to move out of the way if our vehicle is charged and now taking up needed space.

I can get a little more creative if its an ICE vehicle with the charging cord and the driver's side mirror ... makes a memorable cord caddy. :twisted:

Four words to add to the signs: "Violators will be towed". And then actually enforce it, at least for ICE vehicles (see below). Unfortunately, I believe that is the only educational method that will work.

Also, there should be multiple marked EV-charging-only spaces per EVSE plug, so that it is possible to pull the plug out of a charged car and charge your own, without having to find the owner first. Some stations are set up this way, some are not.

leafedbehind said:

Four words to add to the signs: "Violators will be towed". And then actually enforce it, at least for ICE vehicles (see below). Unfortunately, I believe that is the only educational method that will work.

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I agree - Some of the stations in DF/W are towing enforced while others are not. I rarely see an ICE vehicle parked in one of the towing-enforced spots. While the non-towing spots are commonly ICE'd.

They need to be shamed. We need more social pressure to indicate that such activity is completely unacceptable. Sort of like parking in a handicapped spot when you aren't handicapped. Most people don't refrain from parking there because they don't want to be ticketed- they refrain from parking their because their coworkers and friends would call them a dick. They need to be ostracized.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffkb0jwy5v8[/youtube]

Does that not set up the first vehicle (that you pulled the plug on) to be towed / ticketed, given its being enforced?

leafedbehind said:

Four words to add to the signs: "Violators will be towed". And then actually enforce it, at least for ICE vehicles (see below). Unfortunately, I believe that is the only educational method that will work.

Also, there should be multiple marked EV-charging-only spaces per EVSE plug, so that it is possible to pull the plug out of a charged car and charge your own, without having to find the owner first. Some stations are set up this way, some are not.

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Unfortunately it going to need to be Tow. With a 1:1 space to charger.

Giving them a ticket does you no good, you still can't charge. Odds are you probably are not going to be able to charge there anyway. You have to get the owner/manager of the lot to call for a the tow. Then wait for the tow to arrive, could be 30-?? minute till the space is free. Also in privately owned lots, owner/manager is going to be reluctant to call in tow, as towing customers hurts biz.

The LongTerm solution is to have lots of L3 Chargers around that can make the owners of the L3's money. When was the last time you waited for a gas pump to be free so you could fill up your ICE Car. I don't think its necessarily Oil Companies (Gas stations) that would be the best location for them, Coffee places, quick server restaurants, someplace to make some additional revenue in the 15mins or so the L3 take to get the car up to 80% or so. With Over X (15/20? minute) charge cost then higher after the X to encourage car to move along..

In my office parking lot, My company security manager wants the two day time EV's to park in the EV spaces, even if we do not charge, so others don't get use to parking there. We currently have 3.5 EV's (One drives occasionally .5 and one guy is on night shift). Most of the time I only need to charge every other day, and If I plug in when I get to work, I'm charged by time I go to lunch, On my Non/Charge days/times I'm in the EV space but not pluged in.

I remember when handicap parking first started and its enforcement was very weak until they started fining people. the arguments then were identical to the ones now. We simply need to become a more unified voice to get this done

kubel said:

Most people don't refrain from parking there because they don't want to be ticketed- they refrain from parking their because their coworkers and friends would call them a dick. They need to be ostracized.

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I think it is some of both. There have been rare occasions I wanted to park in handicapped. For example when I pull into a store and 100% of the non-handicapped parking is in use. However, there were like 6 handicapped spots available. I seriously thought about parking there, regardless of what people might think of me. What stopped me from doing it was fear of getting a ticket or towed.

The irritating thing about the ICE'ing problem I constantly see is that in 95% of the cases, there are plenty of other parking spots available.

The most annoying are those that leave their vehicles unattended with the connection locked and go
shopping, e.g. Leaf owners!

leafedbehind said:

Four words to add to the signs: "Violators will be towed". And then actually enforce it, at least for ICE vehicles (see below). Unfortunately, I believe that is the only educational method that will work.

Also, there should be multiple marked EV-charging-only spaces per EVSE plug, so that it is possible to pull the plug out of a charged car and charge your own, without having to find the owner first. Some stations are set up this way, some are not.

recmob said:

Does that not set up the first vehicle (that you pulled the plug on) to be towed / ticketed, given its being enforced?

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For plug-ins, perhaps a time limit of, say, four hours, plus an honor system that you don't park there unless you started out charging or needing a charge. Cars without plugs? Tow. Aside from ICEing just being obnoxious, the charging units are way too expensive to install and maintain to have them ICEd all the time.

The OP also pointed out to me that in CA, unplugging someone else's car can get *them* towed, if the signage is such. Stupid law. I'm sure there are several other threads talking about all that.

its a big problem and the cops seem to find this a very low priority even when cities such as LA are crazed to ticket for expired meters.

honestly, i dont go to places such as santa monica and century city and the like because the chargers are so often taken. i recall with some bitterness the jam i got into when visiting a cedars sinai doc in beverly hills and a local tesla was plugged into the only charger in the public lot. he obviously wanted the free juice, and was not suffering range issues. (my assumption)

Thanks for replies.

Even for short term, towing may not always solve the problem. When the spot would be emptied, the next ICE car that sees the opportunity would occupy it (in situations like that Aquarium parking.) Also, in that case, the cable from a few stations do cover more spots, but it did not help as they are all occupied. I think I'd like to see some longer term prospect. Giving them a ticket might not have helped me on that day, but it'll help all of us in the longer term.

So, the analogy to the handicap spots is an interesting one. I am here in the US for fourteen years and when I came here, the handicap spot seemed socially accepted and respected. So DaveInOlyWA's comment gives me an answer to my question.

What is the good way to make us have a more unified voice?

It's the "meter maids" in their crappy little Hondas that are responsible for parking enforcement in L.A... Give them the authority to ticket EV parking offenders and you might find it to be a different story... They can be as aggressive as hell! Most cops could not care less and don't want to be involved.

thankyouOB said:

its a big problem and the cops seem to find this a very low priority even when cities such as LA are crazed to ticket for expired meters.

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flyonpa said:

In my office parking lot, My company security manager wants the two day time EV's to park in the EV spaces, even if we do not charge, so others don't get use to parking there. We currently have 3.5 EV's (One drives occasionally .5 and one guy is on night shift). Most of the time I only need to charge every other day, and If I plug in when I get to work, I'm charged by time I go to lunch, On my Non/Charge days/times I'm in the EV space but not pluged in.

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Allowing non-charging plug in at EVSE or DCFC parking is a BAD idea.
A big % of the problem is ICE parking.
The standard has to be be charging or move the vehicle in in <30 minues.

Have I violated that in my LEAF :?:
Yes, briefly once or twice in 42 months if a meeting ran long, but I should have been ticketed if the parking enforcement person caught it.
You have to set a standard.
Otherwise the parking sign is meaningless
Otherwise it is useless

TimLee said:

flyonpa said:

In my office parking lot, My company security manager wants the two day time EV's to park in the EV spaces, even if we do not charge, so others don't get use to parking there. We currently have 3.5 EV's (One drives occasionally .5 and one guy is on night shift). Most of the time I only need to charge every other day, and If I plug in when I get to work, I'm charged by time I go to lunch, On my Non/Charge days/times I'm in the EV space but not pluged in.

Click to expand...

Allowing non-charging plug in at EVSE or DCFC parking is a BAD idea.
A big % of the problem is ICE parking.
The standard has to be be charging or move the vehicle in in <30 minues.

Have I violated that in my LEAF :?:
Yes, briefly once or twice in 42 months if a meeting ran long, but I should have been ticketed if the parking enforcement person caught it.
You have to set a standard.
Otherwise the parking sign is meaningless
Otherwise it is useless

Click to expand...

With two EVSE's and Two spaces, (not the "best" space in the lot but good ones), We can work it out when there are 3 EV's during the day. Its a small office, just our company in the building. Apx 100 People. We have had a two or three cars from other office buildings near by show up and use the EVSE's, Being a secure building, strange cars in the parking lot worry the Security manager. (Also its a Free EVSE (L2 208v 40A) , and they don't want to encourage non company employees using the power.)

I have some nice big post-card sized stickers I printed out that informs them that the space they are blocking is for charging EV's and it is a ticketable offence. When I see a car blocking the EV spots I slap a sticker on the driver side window.

It is the same tactic my high-school used to enforce parking areas. If your pass didn't allow you to park in that spot, they put 1 giant orange sticker over your driver window that was nearly impossible to get off. It would take hours.

2k1Toaster said:

... If your pass didn't allow you to park in that spot, they put 1 giant orange sticker over your driver window that was nearly impossible to get off. It would take hours.

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Boy, I know that is so wrong.
But hard not to love that idea

I am guessing that "shaming" does work better for handicap spots, because it indeed is a shame to inconvenience handicapped people when you have an able body. But that justification is weaker for EV spots. It's perhaps more closer to Compact Spots, which I see that mostly have no effects to people, and as far as I can tell, there is no law backing up the concept (I digress, but I found that the Los Angeles County Museum of Art has rows of parking spots in their parking structure. All spots are exactly the same width, yet some rows are marked as "COMPACT" while others are not). Besides EV spots, I'd actually hope that any car that does not fit within the marking should get a ticket.

Anyways... It's really about awareness in people, and to me, ticketing often is a low-cost measure (towing seems to have too much social cost to too few). There is an issue of somebody else unplug your plugin car, and whether you should be ticketed or not but for now I'd go on to say that I'm willing to get ticketed in that situation rather than stranded on the road (with some suitable technological help here would be great...